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Grandma responsible for death of 2nd Grandchild

218 replies

JustAskingThisQ · 29/01/2025 16:21

https://www.wdhn.com/news/florida-grandmother-who-left-infant-in-hot-car-found-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/

I'm just watching this trial on YouTube and thought I'd look it up properly. This child, Uriel, was 7 months old and she left her in a hot car. Previously, she was looking after a toddler grandchild (same daughter's child) who slipped away while she was asleep and drowned.

I'm just gobsmacked.

OP posts:
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 29/01/2025 21:02

oakleaffy · 29/01/2025 20:10

I disagree, people may not always think of things- I'd never have considered a half full bucket or lavatory as a drowning risk had someone not posted a Rospa guide to child safety around water.

I'm always happy to learn how to be safer around children and most responsible people feel the same.

If you read the earlier posts in the thread they are not 'grateful for the warning', they're condemning.

oakleaffy · 29/01/2025 21:05

BestZebbie · 29/01/2025 20:09

Water butts are similar - anything where they can tip in head first and not be able to get their arms past their head or back onto the rim to push out backwards.

Yes, Those old fashioned zinc ones {open top} was endlessly fascinating to me and brothers as a children- we'd drop little stones in and watch as they twirled down to the bottom in the clear rainwater.
We didn't see danger. Kids don't.

Choccyscofffy · 29/01/2025 21:09

YourHappyJadeEagle · 29/01/2025 17:25

How on earth do you leave a child in a car, any car, let alone one in Florida temperatures ? Did she forget she was in charge of a child? Horrific. And surely you’d be hyper vigilant as another child had already died in her care.

One example from the article pp linked:

‘On the day Balfour forgot Bryce in the car, she had been up much of the night, first babysitting for a friend who had to take her dog to an emergency vet clinic, then caring for Bryce, who was cranky with a cold. Because the baby was also tired, he uncharacteristically dozed in the car, so he made no noise. Because Balfour was planning to bring Bryce’s usual car seat to the fire station to be professionally installed, Bryce was positioned in a different car seat that day, not behind the passenger but behind the driver, and was thus not visible in the rear-view mirror. Because the family’s second car was on loan to a relative, Balfour drove her husband to work that day, meaning the diaper bag was in the back, not on the passenger seat, as usual, where she could see it. Because of a phone conversation with a young relative in trouble, and another with her boss about a crisis at work, Balfour spent most of the trip on her cell, stressed, solving other people’s problems. Because the babysitter had a new phone, it didn’t yet contain Balfour’s office phone number, only her cell number, meaning that when the sitter phoned to wonder why Balfour hadn’t dropped Bryce off that morning, it rang unheard in Balfour’s pocketbook.

The holes, all of them, aligned.’

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 29/01/2025 21:12

WiddlinDiddlin · 29/01/2025 20:56

The 'how' of kids being forgotten and left in hot cars is pretty well studied.

Its much more likely to happen with someone who is not the childs usual carer, not the person normally transporting the child somewhere, where there is a change of normal routine - so yes, the fact they are in charge of this child has completely left their mind briefly.

So a father who doesn't normally drop the kid off at daycare before heading to work, a grandma who doesn't normally have the kid, has taken them out to the supermarket...

It's way more common in situations where the kid is liable to fall asleep - so the early morning, after a day of trailing around after an adult doing their regular chores/errands -and of course, kid is in the back, invisible if the driver doesn't fully turn around and look.

It's pretty rare that this happens because a child has intentionally been left in the car 'whilst I just do xyz' - (the way many dogs die in hot cars).

The fact that we (particularly drivers) tend to go into an 'auto-pilot' mode and are functioning on a much less concious level than many realise when doing routine things is key too. There have been a lot of studies on this, and it is quite shocking how very unaware people are on their daily commute to work, and im not sure it actually occurs anywhere outside the 'get in the car - drive x route - arrive at work and wake up properly' context. People tend not to notice anything that doesn't actively impede that normal routine (so they would notice a road accident that stopped traffic, they probably would not notice a herd of elephants at the side of the road all dancing the can-can, as long as it doesn't stop the traffic and jolt them out of their auto-pilot.)

Humans are very routine creatures and we also see people forgetting children when they've just had a baby and are not used to taking a baby with them to places - this accounts for a lot of the 'I forgot to get the (sleeping) baby out of the car at the supermarket and also the less remarkable as less dangerous instances where people have forgotten to put the kid BACK in the car, having parked a pram somewhere in store and moved away to get something.

In the days when people left prams/pushchairs outside stores, forgetting to collect the baby for the walk home was not at all uncommon in new parents!

There are lots of schemes and gadgets and protocols you can adopt to ensure it doesn't happen - these tend to be exactly the sorts of things new mums post about on MN, that they want to do, do themselves but MIL or FIL or their own parents refuse to do because they're being 'PFB' about it or they're being over dramatic. Unfortunately the sort of person who pooh-poohs a 'check the back seat before you leave the car' routine, who thinks 'it'll never happen to me' is exactly the sort of person who can end up leaving a kid in a car to boil to death!

I bring this up on driving threads, that our level of inattention is significant when we're driving. The best thing you can do is keep a significant distance from other cars to mitigate our naturally drifting attention patterns.

But people don't think they're inattentive. Which makes them far more dangerous.

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 29/01/2025 21:13

Choccyscofffy · 29/01/2025 21:09

One example from the article pp linked:

‘On the day Balfour forgot Bryce in the car, she had been up much of the night, first babysitting for a friend who had to take her dog to an emergency vet clinic, then caring for Bryce, who was cranky with a cold. Because the baby was also tired, he uncharacteristically dozed in the car, so he made no noise. Because Balfour was planning to bring Bryce’s usual car seat to the fire station to be professionally installed, Bryce was positioned in a different car seat that day, not behind the passenger but behind the driver, and was thus not visible in the rear-view mirror. Because the family’s second car was on loan to a relative, Balfour drove her husband to work that day, meaning the diaper bag was in the back, not on the passenger seat, as usual, where she could see it. Because of a phone conversation with a young relative in trouble, and another with her boss about a crisis at work, Balfour spent most of the trip on her cell, stressed, solving other people’s problems. Because the babysitter had a new phone, it didn’t yet contain Balfour’s office phone number, only her cell number, meaning that when the sitter phoned to wonder why Balfour hadn’t dropped Bryce off that morning, it rang unheard in Balfour’s pocketbook.

The holes, all of them, aligned.’

See, you can actually imagine all of that happening. What a shame

Thelnebriati · 29/01/2025 21:35

Look at that list again. She does favours for people and takes on responsibilities. She was asked to leave her teaching job because she couldn't manage simple tasks.
Maybe she can't say 'no', but its also on other people who don't care that they are asking too much of someone who is overwhelmed.

bringonyourwreckingball · 29/01/2025 21:35

The car thing I honestly totally get. When I had dd1 aged 4 and dd2 18m months and was getting about 3 hours broken sleep a night I was barely functioning. And yes one day when my routine was disrupted I did sail straight past dd2’s nursery and might very well have left her in the car if she hadn’t shouted. It happens. It’s dreadful.

Matronic6 · 29/01/2025 21:51

FindusMakesPancakes · 29/01/2025 18:37

There is a long Washington Post article about forgotten babies in cars. It is not an easy read. But worthwhile for anyone who thinks it could never happen to them.

www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

Thanks for sharing this article. It was a very harrowing read, I had to pause a couple of times. But I can relate to the fact a disrupted routine or stress and distraction can cause a memory lapse.

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 29/01/2025 22:43

How is everyone able to read it? It's behind a pay wall

ARichtGoodDram · 29/01/2025 22:52

I think it's quite telling that the Grandmother would babysit again. And not only babysit but then be so relaxed about it.

DH's aunt was babysitting one of her nephews when he was young and he had a horrible accident. He fell from some steps on a climbing frame in the park and landed horribly. He ended up with a nasty head injury as he hit the frame.
His Aunt has never babysat again, even though people absolutely would trust her as she wasn't at fault whatsoever, but she says she just couldn't cope with the worry and responsibility and to this day (and her nephew is about to be a grandad so it was a long time ago!) still questions herself about if she should have known/how she could have prevented it.

GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples · 29/01/2025 22:55

I wonder what happened to all the people quoted in the article. I plan to share it with as many people as I know, it's a really important one.

bumblenbean · 29/01/2025 23:48

The hot cat death phenomenon is certainly interesting (and horrific). I've read the article mentioned and listened to a really interesting podcast on it. It's definitely not as uncommon as you'd expect.

I understand the Swiss cheese theory and the fact diverging from usual routine is often at play due to being on autopilot etc- but I have to say I really just cannot imagine forgetting my child in the back seat. Maybe for 30 seconds before 'remembering' but not for hours/a whole day. Not saying it couldn't happen but it just seems so inconceivable... saying that, I do 100% accept there have been genuine cases of such a tragedy.

One of the most controversial examples was the man who left his toddler in the car in his work carpark all day. He was vilified because he'd spent half the day sexting a random woman while his son was dying in the car. What I struggled to understand in that case was that he had breakfast with his son in a cafe and then drove to work about 5 minutes away and somehow forgot the baby was in the car during that 5 min journey. I think he also went back to the car at lunchtime but still didn't notice. Absolutely horrific, poor little boy

bumblenbean · 29/01/2025 23:49

bumblenbean · 29/01/2025 23:48

The hot cat death phenomenon is certainly interesting (and horrific). I've read the article mentioned and listened to a really interesting podcast on it. It's definitely not as uncommon as you'd expect.

I understand the Swiss cheese theory and the fact diverging from usual routine is often at play due to being on autopilot etc- but I have to say I really just cannot imagine forgetting my child in the back seat. Maybe for 30 seconds before 'remembering' but not for hours/a whole day. Not saying it couldn't happen but it just seems so inconceivable... saying that, I do 100% accept there have been genuine cases of such a tragedy.

One of the most controversial examples was the man who left his toddler in the car in his work carpark all day. He was vilified because he'd spent half the day sexting a random woman while his son was dying in the car. What I struggled to understand in that case was that he had breakfast with his son in a cafe and then drove to work about 5 minutes away and somehow forgot the baby was in the car during that 5 min journey. I think he also went back to the car at lunchtime but still didn't notice. Absolutely horrific, poor little boy

Hot car, not cat!

MrsFrumble · 30/01/2025 00:19

I think in the case of the mother in the article, she didn’t so much “forget” that her baby was in the car, but her distracted brain was convinced she’d dropped him
off with the babysitter. So much so that when she saw a missed call from the sitter, she assumed it just an update on
how he was doing.

@GreenApplesRedApplesYellowApples after reading it again, I wondered too. I’d like to know if the mother did become a surrogate for the couple at the beginning.

SomethingUniqueThisTime · 30/01/2025 00:23

A distant family member left her fairly young child alone in the house when she went to work rather than taking him to the childminder. Fortunately the child was old enough (about 4) to run next door to a neighbour crying. According to the family member she thought her DH was still in the house and was dropping child off rather than her. I believe social services were called by the neighbour. Knowing what I know about the mother (she is an alcoholic) I suspect she was drunk at the time, surely she noticed husband’s car was not on the drive.
It’s not surprising that the grandmother in this case appears to have an issue with prescription drugs.
Yes, we all forget something for a few minutes but I’m incredulous that all these people forget for several hours without there being other factors in play like alcohol or drugs or cognitive disabilities.

JustAskingThisQ · 30/01/2025 06:45

TryingAgainAgainAgain · 29/01/2025 19:06

Absolute nonsense. It is not “profoundly British” to be crass and insensitive over child death.

Oh shhh

OP posts:
Marvinmoose · 30/01/2025 11:18

If I'd been on that jury and found her not guilty,I'd be really angry to find out after that another child died in her care ..
I think the jury should of had that information to be able to make an informed decision
It's like they only got half the story and had to make a decision on half the information

Spidey66 · 30/01/2025 11:25

Good Lord, not once but twice? And it seems as both times were due to grandmother's negligence, not due to a genuine accident or an underlying health issue with the children.

missdeamenor · 30/01/2025 11:41

I'm going to watch this. Unbelievable.

I don't think I would be able to live myself.

MJconfessions · 30/01/2025 11:46

I haven’t been keeping up with this but it’s certainly unusual that 2 children died at her hands in a supposedly accidental manner.

if the 1st death was purposeful, it makes complete sense that the 2nd death occurred.

if the 1st death was accidental, then it doesn’t make sense that the 2nd death occurred. I would have expected everyone in that child’s life to be on high alert, including the local authorities. Grandma should have been monitoring her grandchildren more as to avoid another death, as presumably the accidental 1st death would have traumatised her. The parents involved should have had low confidence in her ability to keep the children safe. If an accident causing death happens once, the logical response is to prevent a repeat death at all costs.

llizzie · 30/01/2025 18:25

JustAskingThisQ · 29/01/2025 16:21

https://www.wdhn.com/news/florida-grandmother-who-left-infant-in-hot-car-found-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/

I'm just watching this trial on YouTube and thought I'd look it up properly. This child, Uriel, was 7 months old and she left her in a hot car. Previously, she was looking after a toddler grandchild (same daughter's child) who slipped away while she was asleep and drowned.

I'm just gobsmacked.

Very sad.

Choccyscofffy · 30/01/2025 18:28

Maybe she likes the attention that tragedy brings. An even weirder form of Munchausen by proxy, as it used to be called.

Mirabai · 30/01/2025 18:40

I think she just doesn’t want to look after then and cba to pay attention.

Liveandletlive18 · 30/01/2025 18:48

I regularly care for my son & DILs baby. The responsibility is huge. I'd go as far as to say you worry just as much if not more about anything happening to them. Some people, parents & grandparents alike dont have the instinct regarding what's required to properly care for children. Accidents do happen but there are far too many which with proper supervision could be avoided.

Spondoolies · 30/01/2025 18:54

Choccyscofffy · 30/01/2025 18:28

Maybe she likes the attention that tragedy brings. An even weirder form of Munchausen by proxy, as it used to be called.

I don’t know why but the mugshot alone makes me think this