Anyone seen what's happening in Birmingham now

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People out slashing sky news tyres, surrounded the reporting female journalist, a man was battered outside a pub by a mob
wtf is going on !

Talking to me about untruths? That's utter bullshit.

Daniel Anjorin was brutally attacked while walking to school in East London, much like the young, innocent children attacked in their dance class.

He was killed with a samurai sword, suffering fatal wounds to his neck and chest.

In the most recent incident, police have confirmed that the motive remains "unclear" and is not terror-related.

So, I ask again: Where are the riots and protests for this child?

These riots are nothing more than disgruntled individuals looking to blame others for their own shitty lives. As soon as the football season kicks off next week, they’ll all be back home or at Wetherspoons.

Not a 'white man'.

Just for some statistical clarification, White individuals make up the majority of the UK population and are a majority in the prison system as well.

I did hear about it and it was reported extensively on the news. The poor boy had just left for school and was approached from behind. I believe the murderer was a Brazilian man?

There are hundreds of murders every year, both white and non-white, that do not seem to get the kind of media attention as others - I don't think the discrepancy is due to race.

The rioters are from all different backgrounds, not from one race. All of them should be treated equally by the law.

PandoraSox
Until last night there had been no thuggery from the Muslim community in relation to these riots. So why would you expect Starmer to mention anything other than the far right thuggery in his last two press conferences?

To be fair there was some in Bolton on Sunday;

An anti-immigration protest began peacefully outside Bolton Town Hall earlier, but within half an hour, about 300 people who mostly had their faces covered with black face masks or balaclavas, charged towards the building...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cervv8rz8mzo.amp

BAME people are significantly over represented in the prison population, 27% and rising compared to 16% of the population. What's your point?

I completely agree with you.

Before now, I hadn't come across the term "multiethnicity," but it seems to describe my own experience quite well. My sense of multiculturalism really comes to life through the music of my grandparents' homeland, the little bits of their language that I’ve picked up, and, of course, the food.

And honestly, would the iconic British "Chicken Tikka" even exist without a touch of multicultural influence?

I think it's the encouragement of different peoples to segregate themselves and maintain their original culture that is probably causing the division

I completely agree with your perspective.

I do find that the Muslim community, in particular, faces unique challenges in this regard, largely due to some of the religious restrictions. On the flip side, places like Southall in London offer a vibrant snapshot of mini-India, and it’s easy to see why it feels distinct from the rest of England.

Looking ahead, I think we might see these cultural distinctions diminish over the next generation or two. As younger people become less focused on religious practices, it’s possible that traditional Islamic, Sikh, and Hindu views could fade. Likewise, the languages spoken at home and certain culinary traditions might gradually disappear as well.

Firstly, please don't use the term BAME. It's problematic. It reduces complex identities into a single category, which can perpetuate stereotypes and fail to address unique issues faced by different groups.

My concern is with the statement "Again, not a 'white man'." Are you suggesting that white people are less likely to commit crimes compared to individuals from ethnic minorities?

I think you've articulated something I've struggled with since the beginning of all these riots - why multiculturalism works brilliantly in some areas, whereas in others, there is constant tension. It comes down to class and a fairer distribution of wealth ultimately. I have a similar experience to you as in, I've lived in the pockets of extremely impoverished major cities where people simply did not mix and nowadays, live in a diverse but wealthier town where people live together peacefully and respectfully in the main. It's a bug bear of mine when people brandish insults when they haven't the experience of living in different areas to compare.

should a community be so separate from the whole that it requires its own leaders?

Quite. Who are these 'community leaders'? Who do they represent? Who elected or appointed them? I'm reminded of Tony Benn's Five Questions:

“What power have you got?”

“Where did you get it from?”

“In whose interests do you use it?”

“To whom are you accountable?”

“How do we get rid of you?”

I think we very much need to have some serious conversations, I think they're long overdue.

Except that whenever anyone tries to have a conversation, they are shouted down with accusations of racism and bigotry.

I've quoted from a parliamentary article and ONS, that used the term. If you'd like to find the nuance within i suggest looking at actual statistics.

Absolutely not, I used your words. They're not mine. You repeatedly stated a black child was murdered by a white man.

Not sure if this post will stand, but I would like to share my experience - very much with the disclaimer it is only my experience, and not necessarily representative of anyone else's. I would also like to reiterate that I now live in an area where people are very successfully integrated, so I do know it can work!

I'm not sure we should generalise about various groups, especially as I believe there are many fully integrated Muslims (and many non-integrated non-Muslims) so it's not an issue purely with Islam. However, my old area was indeed separated primarily into Muslim and non-Muslim, though there were other congregations too, including of black people. Everyone really stayed amongst 'their own kind'. Specifically with Muslims, I would definitely not agree the cultural distinctions diminished though - when I was younger, I don't remember ever seeing a hijab. Occasionally you'd see a loose headscarf, but never a tight one that completely hid the hair. They came in around the early 2000s. Now, burkhas are commonplace and loose robes and tight headscarves the norm. It's possibly relevant that the area was one of the largest 'exporters' of Isis fighters. I think that allowing these communities to segregate themselves entirely embeds cultural distinctions, and as they have their own areas they have their own shops, doctors, community centres, and even state schools. They need not have any sort of interaction with non-Muslims if they don't want to, and from what I've heard it is actively discouraged - especially for females. I know people will call me bigoted, but I don't think this is a positive thing either for our country, or for these people themselves; it is almost impossible for anyone to escape if they do wish to live a more western lifestyle, and we won't offer assistance as it would be considered racist. We instead leave it up to their 'elders' to run their own mini-societies as they see fit - even if it completely contradicts British values, or laws.

Maybe I'm just being naïve but I genuinely believe that almost everyone is extremely comfortable with the idea of a multi-ethnic society (I might have made up the term, but it seems to make sense!). People from all over who are here because they have something to offer and, even more importantly, choose to be here just because they like the way we do things. This would of course mean people sharing their foods, their music and art etc, but all while fully embracing the country and the country's values.

Didn't Boris buy some water cannons a while back?

Yes, when he was Mayor of London. And of course there was outrage. I think they've been sold or otherwise disposed of now.

Look...I was not able to access the three main social media sites when I searched for them but was able to access BBC News, Amazon etc when using the same search engine at the same time, just typing each one in one after another. Mumsnet, I was able to search for fine. I assume so many people were using social media to find out what was going on that the high traffic had temporarily stopped me accessing these sites. I merely wanted to see if others were finding this too. All was resolved in 10 mins. I asked a simple question, I didn't think to take screen shots to prove it to anyone unfortunately. If you don't believe me that is absolutely fine. If you think i am incapable of using google, that's fine. If you think I have made this up for some bizzare reason, that's fine too. There's enough agro and ill feeling going on at the moment, I have absolutely no desire to create any more and didn't realise I was by asking a simple question!

The term BAME.is somewha problematic but in the same say the term 'white' is, which on this thread has been used to describe northern Europeans, Mediterranean Europeans and Hispanic people as one group when these are at least three groups. Just illustrates the complexity of ethnicity and how very few people know much about it at all.

Sorry are you saying that this is due to them committing more crime? Or due to them being discriminated against?

Because I’d argue that some of that could be due to systemic racism.

black people being more likely to be stopped by the police, more likely to be arrested, more likely to be charged rather than cautioned for a similar offence compared to a white person, more likely to be remanded in custody than a white person, more likely than a white person to get a custodial sentence, and a longer custodial sentence.

Its an accumulative effect which snowballs throughout the judicial system.

The white rioters the last few days have been shouting about two tier policing, there seems to be an insinuation from them that the police are treating them more harshly than they would a non white protester. However the evidence (overall, I’m not talking about this past week) says other wise, that if there is two tier policing it works in favour of white people not against them.

As of March 2021, Parliament no longer uses the term due to the reasons I previously mentioned.

You repeatedly stated a black child was murdered by a white man.

Yes, he appears to be White.

@CormorantStrikesBack @Midknight

Here are the latest statistics. It makes sense that the majority of the prison population is White, given that the majority of the overall population is White.

I too would agree with you regarding systemic racism, it's a travesty that needs to be more widely discussed and tackled on a societal level. Being from a mixed-race family, I know the result of discrimination and judgement just for having the wrong colour skin.
On the same note, it is also important to acknowledge and understand the levels of black on black crime and homicide, and gang related activity.

In regard to the rioters, of which there is absolutely no justification for the level of violence and thuggery that has happened, it's disgusting and they should all be dealt with and brought to justice.
In this clip, it clearly shows 'two tier' policing. Allowing communities to self police, and only converse with community leaders is a recipe for disaster, crime goes unchecked and people are allowed to govern themselves, as clearly shown during the Birmingham situation where people were allowed to intimidate and threaten journalists, brandish weapons and cause criminal damage and assault. Sky News

I hope you are concerned with the two tiered policing that has been happening for years or does that not fit your narrative.

Why do you think people wouldn't be? The clip is outrageous, it's possible to find that startling and also recognise systematic racism that has impacted policing for many years. I'd suggest those most affected over the decades likely also feel confused as to why some communities are afforded this different approach.

The 2011 riots might have started out as mostly black men. But as they spread out, they mirrored more or less the demographics of the young male population in various places. A lot of those involved in looting etc were already in criminal gangs, and gangs in London aren't really divided along racial lines - its postcodes. So, even though ostensibly the riots started because of the murder of a black man, they weren't really based on race at all. If people rioting were asked they were talking about being left behind, not having enough, seeing others with stuff. Whereas in the current riots race and religion etc are relevant to the motivations of the initial rioters (and the Birmingham ones too).

Oh, we have wondered why we have been treated differently for years and why we have been silenced. I just find it rich that all of a sudden, people can recognise what they describe as two-tier policing but have never acknowledged it in the past

Are you referring to the Sky News reporter and the incident involving the slashed van tyres?

If so, that was a reckless and attention-grabbing act. Carrying a knife is not only dangerous but also unnecessary. However, we should not let the actions of a few individuals define an entire community.

I have seen footage of an Asian group attacking a White man at a pub, and the pub was vandalised. This behaviour is completely unacceptable. The Muslim neighbours have already spoken to the pub owner and released a video showing them together, offering apologies and help to repair the damage. They emphasised that this incident does not represent their entire community.

However, this incident appears to be a reaction to a group of white youths who attacked an Asian man walking home and targeted Asian areas, vandalising cars, houses, and shops. The situation seems to be escalating into a cycle of retaliatory violence.

The Muslim community must stand firm and not be intimidated by these violent rioters. There's a limit to what people can endure, and if pushed too far, their reaction could be severe.

This situation needs to de-escalate before it spirals into a full-blown conflict.

The Sikh community has remained quiet so far, but if attacks on Asians continue, they too may feel compelled to respond. It’s crucial that tensions are calmed to prevent further violence.

Has it never been acknowledged? Really?