Judge rules on twins existence

[4intheCorner]

BBC News - Family court judge rules on twins' existence
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cql8nz4nyp7o

I haven't seem a thread on this yet, so apologies if I've missed one.

A very peculiar case. I wonder what has driven the mother to such a drastic concealment.

Oh my, that judgement! My only firm conclusion is that I would love to be a confidante of the Judge, to witness her private reactions and (appropriately redacted) personal commentary throughout these shenanigans.

I am going to speculate that the twins have been snatched away to be raised abroad by the Respondent's brothers in their wealthy patriarchal family. That much of the orchestration of misinformation and forgery also originates with her male family; and that they are the originators of the coercive control she now relives in her subsequent relationships.

It is plausible that the Respondent is vulnerable and has been abused throughout her life; and also that the Applicant has children who are being kept from him.

But surely if she had kids and extended family abroad she’d have just stayed abroad to stay with the kids? Unless her brothers are controlling her so much she wasn’t allowed to but you’d have thought if that was true by this stage she’d have told someone as she’d want her kids back.

What a strange case. Going to read the judgement.

Not sure why that would be the case here?

Well, that was the weirdest thing I have ever read! I can't make up my mind who is being truthful and who is telling complete whoppers. I wonder if there will be any further developments?

I'm so confused by this

Not sure why a woman would claim to be pregnant in order to leave would be the case here, either.

She's obviously very vulnerable, as the judge says. There are cultural issues involved, including the witnesses who seem to be more concerned about "the community" (stating that they should have spoken to community elders rather than gone to court), the issue of wives being pressured to stay and tolerate abusive husbands, the issue of "the community" being strongly against abortion...

Her husband has been abusive towards her, she had anonymous threats of violence throughout the case forcing her to do and say things for fear of the repercussions, her mum is dead and her brothers seem to have disowned her. Her "community" seem more worried about preventing a divorce than her safety.

It's all very well saying "cruel woman" or whatever PPs have said, but consider the context.

I am frustrated that valuable court time has been taken up by this ridiculous shit show.

The judge covers that - did you not read it? She was being abused and the therapist said she had other clients who used pregnancy or fake pregnancy as a way to leave their abusers. It's highly relevant here. Are you being dense on purpose?

To be honest the only reason I find this strange is because it’s in the family court. It surely should be with the police to investigate first , and identify whether children exist and what the circumstances are for it to then be passed to family court. Similarly strange and conflicting things are dealt with by the police on a daily basis.

if I’m being honest, I don’t think there is any empirical evidence. The husband’s witnesses ie his psychotherapist and the wife’s ex friend, could be biased against the wife here. There seems to be some “shame” involved.

i think the fact the NHS is completely unaware these children exist is much stronger evidence. It is exceedingly rare for no one in that household to have needed medical assistance to date. Is there medical evidence that the pregnancy scans were hers? That’s the sort of thing the police could access to investigate this. Seems silly for a judge to need to deduce facts based on he said she said, when the police could investigate more thoroughly

Whether we hear anything of an update or not I'd sincerely hope there was further investigation because I'd hate to think of the situation they currently find themselves in if these children do exist.

the therapist said she had other clients who used pregnancy or fake pregnancy as a way to leave their abusers.

Out of interest, why would a pregnancy help them leave? Doesn't abuse often start in pregnancy (and therefore I assume it might often escalate during it as well)? I think if I was pregnant in an abusive relationship it would increase my desire to leave, but also I'd want to hide it from my abuser, rather than tell him.

I wondered at the logic behind that too. I'm not a therapist but I didn't see how if pregnant I would be sharing that information with someone who apparently abused me and whom I wanted to leave.

I could understand the pregnancy being the catalyst for wanting to leave but then as you've said you wouldn't share information etc with someone who you didn't want involved and who you were leaving?

This is quite common with teh client group I work with

The therapist briefly explains that. It empowers them to
leave, it gives them a reason that isn’t “just” themselves.

It’s probably not common, but it’s not entirely unbelievable either.

Or indeed no less believable than any of the rest of this.

It's not uncommon for a woman to tell a man he's the father of her DC when she knows or at least suspects that he's not, but it's fairly rare for her to pass off a borrowed child on a man having never been pregnant herself at all...

Yes but that doesn't account for the mother to tell the father, share sonogram etc. I get it inspiring them to leave as they want to put them child/ren first but it seems unusual to discuss it all so feely with someone who apparently abused you? Surely instinct would be to keep it as much of a secret as possible to protect the child/ren?

Either way as I say I really hope someone is properly investigating this now as if they do exist then it seems the children are not having their needs put first.

There are communities in the UK who prefer to resolve their issues without recourse to public courts.
The weird collection of witnesses all sound to be members of the same community as the respondent and it almost sounds like the community were covering something up and collectively telling a huge number of lies. The various therapists sound like in reality they are forms of traditional marriage/family counsellors connected to the community and its so unclear whether any had any real professional qualifications which could have established them as more trustworthy/ to be believed.
From the notes every single one of them has lied at some point in the debacle.
I suspect there is more to the story and i hope if there really are young children involved the truth is eventually known and the children protected as it sounds like a really toxic family.

I think it is highly unlikely that in the UK a woman could have and keep a child without it coming to the attention of the authorities one way or another, the police have been out to her house and presumably didn’t find evidence of children such as beds or toys and her bank records would show a change in spending patterns.

If she had had children and didn’t want him to see them, and it appears she is financially independent and has considerable means, surely she would’ve left the country or passed them off as her brothers children.

In the court documents one witness talks about a child with “a bun”. Maybe there is a kid then if you’ve seen him/her.

That makes no sense. Pregnancy gives a link between the abusive partner and baby and it’s also a trigger factor for worsening violence. Why would you lie about something that would give someone an even stronger hold on you if you want to leave them?