Judge rules on twins existence

[4intheCorner]

BBC News - Family court judge rules on twins' existence
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cql8nz4nyp7o

I haven't seem a thread on this yet, so apologies if I've missed one.

A very peculiar case. I wonder what has driven the mother to such a drastic concealment.

Unfortunately abusive people/men will use the court system for control. The Family Court in particular seems to be unable to recognise multiple applications all seemingly different but part of the same pattern. A refusal to ever compromise. So yes the abuser will continue to use the court system. Interesting that the Applicant with his multiple applications was always a litigant in person. I do wonder if the respondent came from a much wealthier family (on the surface) and the very quick ending of an arranged (??) marriage was problematic.

I'm currently on p46 which is starting to deal with the most wierd dealings with the Portman Hospital. I am not very impressed with their record keeping, and the other thought is that these people - Applicant and Respondent - are clearly not short of cash.

Yeah but I’m sorry that doesn’t even sound remotely plausible. Real pregnancy, yes, I can see that it would trigger a woman into leaving an abusive situation. Deliberately faking a pregnancy, telling the “dad” about it so that he has an additional reason to stay in your life, not so much. You do get some strange “expert” witnesses who will say pretty much anything the person instructing them wants them to.

@socialdilemmawhattodo the court reading mentioned her being from a wealthy family and him not so much.

@Chasingthewin do you think there’s a child then?

Thank you! I am skim reading quite fast as I keep being interrupted. Cats and family demanding food - how obnoxious. Still incredulous at the Portland responses. It really seems to me as if a third party tried to access records. You would think they, of all hospitals in the UK, would be used to that.

Pity the judge who had to wade through all that! A private abortion that she was/is too ashamed to admit seems more likely. But it's such a strange story, who knows.

Amazed that the words of a 'therapist' are so often seen as gospel on this site

If a therapist, or even better a psychiatrist says something, then it has to be true, its fact, and they are the only ones who know what they're talking about

Having worked professionally with a wide range of them Im afraid I dont hold them any higher or lower than any other professional. Opinions and competencies differ hugely and some have huge agendas and clear issues themselves.

Some of the most unstable and unhinged people Ive met are MH professionals.

Or justice for the mother having to live in that level of fear..

Wow, so maybe she is scared of her controlling ex and wants him out her life.

Sounds utterly bizarre.

Surely the family court should have immediately referred the matter to the police for investigation? Concealing a birth is a crime and if there is any chance that a child/children were born it warrants an urgent investigation I'd have thought.

Why are you entertaining this conversation? You seem really gullible. You have no idea whether the person you’re speaking to is trolling or not. Weird

So I am now on Page 47 222 referencing changing number several times since birth. ie only a 3 year max period. I work as a data manager in education. I now flag parents changing mobile numbers as a safeguarding issue. I have done mini-surveys regarding changing mobile numbers. Most people in stable situations (work, relationships, life) port their number to their new provider. Changing number "several times" is highly indicative of an issue. I've no idea in this situation what issue there might be but indicative. Not good for the whole situation.

Interesting. Can changing phone number also be linked to having some sort of an intellectual impairment/learning disability as they might be more likely to lose/have phone stolen and may not know how to transfer their number to a new phone? I'm not asking in relation to this case, just a curiosity thing.

But has a photo been released of her? How can you know it's the person you are thinking of?

I have read through everything now.

In summary, I really take issue with the findings. I think that frankly, the case was handled badly. What strikes me, is that seemingly all parties have been in contact recently. I wouldn’t expect the applicant or respondent to be in regular contact with the witnesses after court proceedings are underway. Let alone 3 way calls between them and the witnesses, or contact between the applicant and respondent whilst the proceedings were underway. It’s fairly incestuous.

Frankly I see a fear of the court from everyone involved but I don’t see respect for the court from these people.

Firstly, this judgment gives insight into the deeply rooted culture involved. As a general observation, with your average white-British person, the law tends to be aligned with their beliefs. English laws are usually put in place tailored to the culture of the country. A government responding to their citizen needs so to speak.

In this case, it comes across that the applicant, respondent and witnesses are having a conflict between the law and their
beliefs. This is why their evidence sounds bizarre. They are all seemingly practicing Muslims. We know that issues with “honour” exist and that there can be cultural differences. A number of witnesses gave differing accounts on different occasions. I think they just fit their accounts to what the community would be most tolerant of. They said whatever would protect their own reputation and individual reputation whilst seemingly washing their hands of being further involved. It’s quite interesting.

It could be. Obviously I am not privileged to know the medical details of our students' parents (or any safeguarding notes). The requests to change numbers tend to be more - oh I've changed my number. Sometimes the same provider, but not always. I hadn't noticed a pattern, and then about 3 years ago I did. I had always added comments to the student record (eg old no this, changed on this date, notified by email etc) and realised I was updating certain family numbers quite often eg every 6 months. There were/are the drug dealing families but also those where I learned, via osmosis, had issues with DV. So since then I flag to the safeguarding team changes to mobile numbers. If its a false internal report then so be it.

@crampyi I think the judge would agree with you and also took issue with the findings. The lack of legal representation making it impossible to fact find in accordance with the law correctly.

I wonder why neither of them had legal representation when they both seem to be able to afford it.

"He saw the kid occasionally"

"He was devastated"

He can't have been that bothered if he hardly saw the child.

Following on from the cultural issues at play, the professionals involved seemingly blurred boundaries. Eg wanting the marriage to be resolved, as this is important culturally. They definitely had a more personal involvement than you’d expect from an impartial therapist etc. Especially as they know how vulnerable the woman involved is. I’d be expecting these medical professionals to be noting safeguarding concerns, not trying to get her back with a man she claims abused her and having 3 way calls. Weird. And concerning, as these could be medical professionals treating you and I.

I don’t think the applicant/husband cares about any possible children. His agenda is to protect his reputation. All he wants to do is discredit his ex, make her look crazy and to fuck her over. Hence him
abusing abuse being caught in her covert recordings. Hence the forged evidence. He doesn’t genuinely want any kids, he just wants ultimate control over what people say about his ex. If the community thinks she’s crazy, it exonerates him. It might even help his reputation to be the wronged party here. Typical narcissist.

The respondent/wife sounds extremely mentally unwell however which adds another layer of complexity but also simplicity into how this has been allowed to escalate. He is taking advantage of her, but equally she has lied and she has told conflicting stories. I do think she’s susceptible to his exact flavour of abuse/control. She is under his control to an extent, and is doing herself no favours. It’s hard to follow her version of events.

However I frankly think the judge should have been more proactive in involving the police, medical professionals and social services. If she came into court crying about threats and graves being defaced, the judge should have called the police to investigate this. The judge should have sought support for the respondent, whether that’s police or medical, instead of getting the respondent to go to her mother’s grave alone. What if she was attacked en route for example? What if she needed medical support as she was clearly distressed? I don’t think the judge made the right decision to not seek further evidence in an attempt to end things once and for all - it’s better the right decision is made as opposed to a rushed decision. Unless the judge’s findings allow for a full and thorough police investigation to determine if these children exist or not.

There was a very similar story a few years ago on a docu series called reported missing on the BBC www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/dumped-woman-jailed-after-wreaking-13190718.amp

No, it says they saw the boy regularly doesn’t it?