Three woman murdered in Hertfordshire.

[BodenCardiganNot]

Absolutely shocking. A 26 year old man named as Kyle Clifford, believed to be armed with a crossbow, is being sought by police.
The dead women are aged 61, 28 and 25.

Poor Carol, Hannah and Louise.
I’m so very sorry.

I don’t know what we’re going to do.

But I agree we’re going backwards - things are getting worse. I fear for my daughter, her friends, my nieces, my goddaughters, my sister.

Absolutely piss off with your disgusting victim blaming mindset.

What about Sabina Nessa? Bibaa Henry? Sarah Everard? Zara Aleena?

These women didn’t know their killers. How the fuck can they take back the power???

They must’ve been in utter terror. It’s horrendous.

We are allowed to show some solidarity with their family though.

@CaveMum Oh no. They knew he was evil. That somehow makes it worse. That they knew and tried to address it.

I feel so very upset about it. Angry and upset.

You think acting a little more wary of men will stop horrendous premeditated acts where someone has bought a weapon, tied people up, murdered them then just walked calmly away getting in his car? So casually someone walking past didn't look twice at him? This is as deliberate as murder gets.
These men are not.commiting crimes in a flash of anger.

The majority of men who murder and rape women know them already and are usually partners or relatives. Street attacks might sometimes be averted (or more likely postponed to another, less-aware or disabled woman) by situational awareness but attacks like this triple murder of women by a man they know won't be. And street attacks are a minority of attacks.

I'd agree there..Sex abuse is often a man known to the child - or a partner.
Being out in the open, one may see flashers, get asked for drinks &c- but these are usually easily deflected.

A female relative had a very young man {20's} attempt to rape her, but she was determined to mark him- and she did.

He got up and back onto his motorcycle {South of France} - the man {on National service} almost certainly would have needed hospital treatment for the wound sustained.

Just been thinking, before reading this about how throughout history men just repeatedly hurt women. Family annihilatirs who seem like “nice guys” such as that monster Chris watts killing his entire family wife Shann’an and the happy, funny, beautiful baby girls just because they were getting in the way of his new life with his mistress, disposing of their bodies in the most appalling way imaginable as if they were rubbish. Then you have the vile Wayne couzens planning and carrying out an utterly horrific kidnap rape and murder extinguishing the bright beautiful life that was Sarah Everard. I know of a family annihilation that happened within a family I know personally. Husband killed wife and baby and then himself. Fucking monsters, selfish, entitled destructive creatures. I despair then I read about these poor women and yet again they die and suffer at the hand of a man. A man who just didn’t want them to exist anymore. So now they don’t

NAMALT = Not All Men Are Like That.

fuck off. seriously. You’re appalling.

Sex attackers are not “easily deflected” out in the open you utter half wit @oakleaffy

At this point there is very deliberate, very ugly goading.

I respectfully suggest that it be ignored.

It doesn't help that the police don't care.

I've reported my ex for several disturbing instances and they haven't kept a note of any of them. Calling them 'domestic disputes'. Didn't even speak to him. Now have cameras all around my home.

Until the police start to take VAWG seriously, and until society starts to care, this will continue. I have no faith that will ever happen. We just aren't important.

They were by my female relative -on her own and kilometres from anywhere.
No one within screaming distance. {South of France}

She fought back and marked the young man - see above.
Her instincts kicked in.
She thought she was going to be killed, but she marked him...and he got up and rode away. {Dirt track}

This relative travels widely alone.

You're missing the point anyway. We shouldn't have to "deflect" them. They should just behave themselves.

Why is it always our job to solve the problem?

They key part of this being that she had schizophrenia... and was, of course, failed by mental health services (and the 'Crisis' Team in particular)

My female relative didn't report her attack in South of France, either - she said French Police would be unsympathetic to a young woman walking alone miles from anywhere {she was documenting Mediterranean flowers in a National Park}

She said it just wasn't worth the aggro.
A pity, as she was certain that he'd have needed medical attention and shots for the wound he received from her-

It would be obvious to any medic how the wound was given, so he could well have been caught.

We tried to get her to go to the police, but she refused.

Oh do go away, oakleaffy. Your relative’s alleged experience is totally fucking irrelevant. No one with a crossbow was attacking her in her own home.

Many women aren't physically or mentally able to fight back. They aren't to blame for being attacked. Had your relative been in a wheelchair, she'd have been a sitting duck.

Autistic women like myself struggle to identify red flag behaviours, never mind act to deflect them. We aren't to blame for our disproportionately high sexual violence victimisation rate (90% lifetime prevalence compared to one in three for women generally).

Men must change. It's always the man's fault because he chose to attack.

Of course. That was inevitable 🤷‍♀️ 🤬

Wayne Couzins and David Garrett demonstrated that the police are part of the problem.

This person in that case though was reportedly seriously unwell, and had stopped taking their medication. The incident itself was ‘awful’, but it is hardly a fair example to use of how ‘women can be awful’.

The “fight or flight” response is an over simplification, particularly for women. It’s been shown that there are actually 6 different responses to a stressful situation with Friend, Freeze, Flop and Fawn being the others.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/k0dsZFx9mZ6B68zCJrqPyY/the-truth-about-the-fight-or-flight-response

Easily deflected?

I can remember every man who sexually assaulted me. I don't take it lightly and you don't any right to take it lightly on any other woman's behalf. How fucking dare you.

The guy when I was 11 who swirled his disgusting penis at me when I was on the train platform I didn't just shrug that off. Or the bloke who stuck his hand up my skirt from behind and then laughed in my face. Or the guy who stood masturbating as I turned the corner late at night on my way home.

All of these offences are well known to be gateway offences to rape and even worse. All of them erode your boundaries and increase the level of male entitlement.

No you have no right to airily dismiss other women's experiences. Speak for yourself but don't expect other women to be able to overcome sexual abuse so lightly. And don't tell them they shouldn't be furious, raging on their own behalf and on those of other women.

It hasn't happened to me for decades, but I still feel protective of young women and girls and don't think any of them should have to put up with it for a minute longer. Until ALL women and ALL men who are not predatory stand strongly behind the position that no level of harrassment is to be dismissed, there will always be men who see that as tacit acceptance.

You are part of the problem with your minimising and gaslighting.