Abandoned baby Elsa is third newborn to be deserted by same parents

[SerendipityJane]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5115e7k2eno

@Sprogonthetyne I don't disagree with you - I thought DP's view was very narrow and is likely to be wrong!

I take off grid to mean she is not registered with any local services - GP/midwife services would be aware of the pregnancies; social services would be aware if she was a vulnerable adult that had been born in the UK or indeed if anyone had raised concerns about a friend/neighbour they are worried about; no schools have raised concerns about a teenage girl (assuming she could have been a teen for the first pregnancy in 2017) being pregnant or going missing; no missing persons reports flagged up.

I know what I think that means @CaveMum too, but I've asked @Southlondoner88 as it was she who posted that

Only thing I can think of is it might trigger someone’s memory. They’d see a pregnant woman then no baby , then saw same woman pregnant again and no baby. It’s a very small chance I think that anyone would remember and be able to identify the mother.

Many children will have names changed on adoption as it’s in best interests of child.
A child with a very distinctive name is an easy one to track down if the child has birth family in area. It’s also very obvious if a child is adopted if name is add odds with siblings meaning child may be put on spot - why is your brother called Tom, Sister Katie and you are Prince-Millionaire.

@NigelHarmansNewWife that’s what I mean, off grid can mean a multitude of things. Since nobody knows yet, I’m saying off grid as there are many possibilities but it is more than poverty. Poverty alone doesn’t force a couple into unassisted birth and child abandonment. Not in this country anyway.

@IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle

Illegal immigrant is one thing, could also be people with learning disabilities or lack of English who don’t know how to access the benefits system for help, or financial abuse, debt, sending money to their home of origin.

You have to remember they may come from a culture very different to ours. In certain areas of Africa there can be a belief that a baby is a witch and they are then thrown out onto the street.

You can’t judge these people necessarily on expected social norms in the U.K. if they were not brought up in the U.K. (potentially as one way of explaining this awful behaviour).

The case I know of basically went:

Child was called….let’s say she was called “Beyonce.”

Parents chose “Bea” as a nickname. (That’s not the name, this is just an example)

At school, they filled in the forms for a known-as name, making it clear she was NEVER to be called anything other than Bea, in speech and in writing.

As soon as it was legally possible, the child changed her name to Beatrice, and continued to use Bea as a nickname.

Parents made the right choice. Being called Beyoncé (or, in reality, an equally stupid name just like Beyoncé) is going to be utterly embarrassing and result in your CV getting binned, in the real world.

Immediately changing my name to Princess Millionaire.

Totally agree - the name given prior to adoption will be in the records and this be in their history there but babies don’t remember these names so fine to change them.

The police is right to be concerned about the mother. I don’t think they would prosecute her, she needs post natal care and mental health support as a priority but in this specific case I think they are also very interested in the family overall. In some of the LLF cases there have been families who kept some children and gave up others due to hardship. From memory, was one man who was given up/foundling and had a good life and found his siblings. They had stayed with the mother and had a thoroughly tough time. It was hard to watch.
There could be more children born to this family living in poor conditions and given the areas of London they found all three, entirely possible.

The immigration theory is possible if a couple are here illegally and wanting a better life for the children. My gut is baby more likely to have been dressed warmly and left in a church or hospital in that case though.
Publicity is a double edged sword but judge has made decision after hearing all the evidence.
Hope the publicity does assist positively and it jogs someone’s memory enough to allow authorities to make some progress.
It says in report baby doesn’t even have a birth certificate yet so no legal name.

My thoghts too, I fear that somewhere there is a poor woman or girl who is bing kept somewhere against her will, being abused, conceiving babies, giving birth without medical help and pain relief and then having her babies taken away and left outside . It has really shaken me, that something like this could be happening and nobody is able to help her. Of course this is only one possible scenario, but whatever is happening it's not good

Made me think of modern day slavery

I think we are all in agreement that there is some woman locked up somewhere, being abused.

Women do not leave newborn babies in carrier bags on freezing cold nights simply because they are poor, can he not imagine the mental strain it would have on a woman? If it’s anything other than an abusive hostage incestous situation I’ll eat my hat.

If they were poor why would they give birth secretively and abandon the baby secretively? They could have the baby on the nhs and give it up for adoption. They'd be able to get free contraception too.

I don't usually agree with things being made public, but in this case I think it was wise.

I initially thought that, but now I can see why the authorities involved didn’t want it publicised.

It’s quite possibly put the woman in danger, and it’s almost certainly put any further babies in grave danger.

The most dangerous point for a woman in an abusive relationship is when the man starts to feel like he’s losing control of the situation, and this publicity could very easily lead to panic.

I'm sure women do (not saying this in the case here). It's stupid to pretend all women are morally infallible or even decent people.

Is it possible the parents are illegal immigrants and are frightened to be sent back to their country? Might be hard to get contraception.

Is it possible the parents are illegal immigrants and are frightened to be sent back to their country? Might be hard to get contraception.

Hard for a woman maybe. A man can go to any high street chemist.

Somebody, somewhere needs help to prevent this happening again.

The Police have supposedly spent 5 yesterday looking for the mother, and still haven't found her.

I wonder whether they have tried DNA traces, I'm assuming not

What makes you think 'the authorities have a good idea who it is'?
The police claim to have been looking for the parents for 5 yrs, and i seriously doubt Social Services have any idea, they rarely do

Well she is wrong. Judges are not infallible. Sometimes they make mistakes

Someone I knew adopted a baby who was born to a drug addicted couple. 2 years later they got a call from social services - the same couple had had another child, who needed adopting. So they adopted that one too.