Page 13 | Abandoned baby Elsa is third newborn to be deserted by same parents

Dryplate · 04/06/2024 20:51

Dodappydah · 04/06/2024 20:41

I too know the area well, I loved on Roman road up until 5 years ago and my father still lives on the road,.I grew up there from childhood, the area is very diverse with a big mix of eastern European, Nigerian, Muslim, Bengali, white English (yes really, in fact on my father's road there are at least 9 or 10 houses where he knows the owners who are all older white English who hwve lived there for decades). It's a huge mix of races and religions as well as ages, there is a secondary school at the end of the road where two babies were found (Brampton Manor).

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Yes, but what in saying is Nigerians are a small minority, so shouldn't really be that hard to find if anyone's actually trying (and the babies are of Nigerian heritage)

Snerl · 04/06/2024 20:52

@GoogleWhacking assuming you're telling the truth (which I'm not remotely convinced you are), having been involved in a professional capacity in similar cases in the past, I would be very, very careful what you post on here if I were you. There is almost certainly something in your contract about social media use and professional conduct, and nobody is quite as anonymous on an 'anonymous' forum as they'd like to believe.

BeGutsyCat · 04/06/2024 20:52

Dryplate · 04/06/2024 20:51

Yes, but what in saying is Nigerians are a small minority, so shouldn't really be that hard to find if anyone's actually trying (and the babies are of Nigerian heritage)

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They didn't say Nigerian at all

TokyoSushi · 04/06/2024 20:54

It makes me really sad to think that something terrible is going on with the woman right now whilst I'm sitting peacefully at home.

If it's a situation where the poor woman never sees the light of day, then it's very odd that the babies are left in plain sight.

I saw once on a police programme that they'd taken a DNA sample from somebody and then gone knocking on doors saying that 'we know it's not you, but somebody related to you is involved in X, do you have any ideas?'

It was on BBC 6pm news today too so the police are becoming more vocal about it just now for some reason...

fitbiscuit · 04/06/2024 20:57

The whole thing makes me recall Elisabeth Fritzl and what her monster of a father did to her and her children. I hope it isn't that but I do think the situation whatever it is involves a woman in great distress and suffering at the hands of a man.

JayJayEl · 04/06/2024 20:57

SoupChicken · 04/06/2024 19:53

I expect the mother is probably already pregnant again, the fact the baby was abandoned around an hour after birth tells me it’s not likely it was the mother who left her there. I gave birth alone with no pain relief, it was a pretty quick delivery and took around an hour for the placenta to come out, but I would not have had the strength or energy to get up and go outside. I had to be wheeled to the ambulance when it eventually arrived and I was bleeding everywhere, I think that a woman in that state would’ve been noticed in the park.

We don’t need baby boxes in this country, there’s nothing stopping anyone leaving a baby on a doorstep, fire station, hospital or handing them to a stranger in the street and refusing to give their name.

I knew someone who adopted a little boy as a baby and was refused permission to change his name as it was ‘part of his history’ she just waited until the adoption went through and changed it anyway, to be fair the name given to him by his birth parents was awful (and I don’t mean not to my taste, I mean it wasn’t a proper name and it was just stupid)

That's really shitty of your friend. Their name isn't just "part of [their] history" - it is their NAME. It is their very being. Who are they to say what is or isn't a "proper name"? We had to change my little boy's name for safeguarding reasons, and even though we would have never chosen/didn't like his original birth name, we wouldn't have changed it just for that selfish reason!

Rufus27 · 04/06/2024 21:00

MabelMaybe · 04/06/2024 09:14

That most recent news story says the older ones have already been adopted, but that they are looking at ways of kepeing the three siblings in touch as they get older. I can see that if you were offered the chance to adopt one baby, you wouldn't even consider that other siblings would appear further down the line, so they can't be kept together as a family group.

We adopted one baby and were then asked to adopt his full sibling when she was born a year later (which we did). It’s not uncommon for this to happen. In fact, the majority of my friends who’ve adopted had a single child originally and then went one to adopt one or more siblings. My children have other older siblings adopted with a different family and we have close contact with them.

soupfiend · 04/06/2024 21:00

Lots of adopters change the child's name. Once that adoption order goes through they are the legal parent and just like any parent they can make a decision to change their child's name.

SoupChicken · 04/06/2024 21:05

JayJayEl · 04/06/2024 20:57

That's really shitty of your friend. Their name isn't just "part of [their] history" - it is their NAME. It is their very being. Who are they to say what is or isn't a "proper name"? We had to change my little boy's name for safeguarding reasons, and even though we would have never chosen/didn't like his original birth name, we wouldn't have changed it just for that selfish reason!

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Honestly it wasn’t shitty or selfish, without giving it away it was along the lines of calling the baby “Three” because it was her third baby, the others had also been taken away.

Iwasafool · 04/06/2024 21:06

MabelMaybe · 04/06/2024 09:14

That most recent news story says the older ones have already been adopted, but that they are looking at ways of kepeing the three siblings in touch as they get older. I can see that if you were offered the chance to adopt one baby, you wouldn't even consider that other siblings would appear further down the line, so they can't be kept together as a family group.

I knew someone who adopted one, then were asked if they wanted to take the baby that was due in a few months and they were more than happy but they felt they couldn't take the third when asked. It was very sad but circumstances made it impossible. The babies weren't abandoned so slightly different.

muddyford · 04/06/2024 21:07

fitbiscuit · 04/06/2024 20:57

The whole thing makes me recall Elisabeth Fritzl and what her monster of a father did to her and her children. I hope it isn't that but I do think the situation whatever it is involves a woman in great distress and suffering at the hands of a man.

That was my first thought, children of the women's father and her.

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 04/06/2024 21:18

Could be a Josef Fritzel situation.

RogueFemale · 04/06/2024 21:19

Limth · 04/06/2024 10:10

I believe Elsa's father is a trafficker who's been keeping Elsa's mother locked up somewhere nearby and pimps her out as a prostitute or a modern slave for a number of years. I believe that during this time, he has been raping her which has resulted in Elsa and her siblings.

I believe that he sees Elsa and her siblings as little but an inconvenience. I believe he sees little other choice than to just abandon these children in the park, so he does.

As you said, this isn't a panicking teenager. I also don't believe this is a 'secret birth' situation. I don't believe a woman could've concealed three pregnancies to full term, concealed three births, and left three babies in a park.

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A not implausible scenario, but, then, why wouldn't the pimp force the mother to take the pill, to avoid the obvious inconvenience?

Dryplate · 04/06/2024 21:20

BeGutsyCat · 04/06/2024 20:52

They didn't say Nigerian at all

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I know, that's what I said in my original post, but several posters here have said Nigerian.

Abouttimeforanamechange · 04/06/2024 21:20

the police are becoming more vocal about it just now for some reason...

Because they can, now the judge in the Family Court has given permission for the sibling link to be reported.

Badgertime · 04/06/2024 21:24

They really need to find that mother. She is most probably extremely distressed. I hope they find out what's going on soon. If nobody has seen that woman pregnant during 3 pregnancies or she has no friends or family who have come forward, It must be some kind of abuse.

Pippa246 · 04/06/2024 21:25

Littlebitofsomething · 04/06/2024 12:35

I can't imagine it would be difficult to track down relatives in this age of DNA testing.

Really??? What if this is a woman who has been trafficked from some poor developing world country or been sold as a modern day slave? Not everyone comes from a world where DNA databases are maintained.

Iwasafool · 04/06/2024 21:26

Hollyhobbi · 04/06/2024 17:38

I remember that programme. The Catholic Church has a lot to answer for.

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Not sure why the Catholic Church is to blame when a married man who is a Catholic has sex with another woman, which is totally against the teaching of the Catholic church. I'm pretty sure the protestant woman doesn't belong to a denomination that promotes having sex with married men so no blame there either.

Honestly people try to blame religion for everything.

Pippa246 · 04/06/2024 21:27

4YellowDaffodils · 04/06/2024 12:41

Have you even read this thread?

Plenty of examples where this simply may not be possible due to the situation the mother is in.

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Indeed. Some of the comments on this thread are naive in the extreme! People shocked that not everyone lives an autonomous, “normal” lifestyle.

Stopmotion24 · 04/06/2024 21:32

GoogleWhacking · 04/06/2024 12:02

This mother was told to leave the baby at an ambulance/fire/police station. All 999 services were asked to look out for this at stations both in London and surrounding areas. They chose not to.

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So couldn’t 999 track the caller?

Sometimesright · 04/06/2024 21:39

It makes me wonder if the mother could be being held prisoner. It’s worrying and heartbreaking tbh

iamreallyabee · 04/06/2024 21:39

Does anyone know if anyone in the UK would be refused medical care ?

Pippa246 · 04/06/2024 21:48

mathanxiety · 04/06/2024 15:47

I am in a US state where babies up to 30 days old can be left in climate controlled, 24/7 monitored "safe haven baby boxes", located at staffed police stations, fire departments, hospitals, and emergency healthcare facilities. There are several boxes in the suburban municipality where I live as we have two hospitals here, a big police station, and multiple fire houses.

While all 50 states have safe haven laws, other places have far fewer baby boxes.

Here's what they generally look like inside:
https://lutheranfamilyservice.org/2023/10/iowas-first-safe-haven-baby-box/

And outside, for the most part:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/indiana-installs-safe-haven-baby-boxes-abandoned-newborns-n568811

It's a situation that cries out for practical remedies. Babies are completely vulnerable.

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Although it is good that babies can be given up safely, the lack of access to abortion will surely increase the number of abandoned babies - babies which are highly likely to go to financially comfortable/educated/middle class adoptive parents. There’s a bit of me that thinks this is not unintentional. It’s all very sad.

SeriaMau · 04/06/2024 22:00

mathanxiety · 04/06/2024 19:40

Further to my post to you, @oakleaffy It is a well documented fact that there are men out there who start or ramp up abuse of a woman during pregnancy or after the baby is born.

These men are aware in a cognitive sense of the fact that the woman is pregnant with their own child, or has just given birth to that child. Yet the feeling of obligation to protect and support the woman isn't there. Instead a monstrous selfishness takes over.

How dare the woman's family and friends pay attention to the woman, how dare midwives and doctors pay attention to her, how dare she show love or attention to the baby!

Men with certain Cluster B personality disorders cannot bear it when their female partner pays attention to anything but them.

Females are four times as likely to receive a diagnosis of Cluster B personality, compared with males, so what is your actual point?

Louise303 · 04/06/2024 22:04

CerealPonderer · 04/06/2024 10:14

I would hope they've done extensive DNA tests on the children to try and get as much information as possible. Such as ancestry testing which could indicate if both parents are of Nigerian descent or whatever, and familial matches through crime databases. Plus full investigations into where everything found with the baby was bought, what brand of clothing/towels etc were used. Anything to try and get a pattern.

Does that happen in real life or do I watch too much CSI? Or is there just too much red tape and it's not something that would be focused on?

I do not think they do this with ancestry,myheritage and 23 and me it would be great if they did so much would be solved. You have the option on gedmatch to share your dna with police in America. They have solved so many crimes I remember the case of a little girl raped and murdered they found out who her killer was years later. Even though the offender was never arrested or had his dna on file they linked him because his son was convicted of something and had his dna on file.