Abandoned baby Elsa is third newborn to be deserted by same parents

[SerendipityJane]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5115e7k2eno

I saw a story about someone who did this. The babies are all now adults.

The mother turned out to be the woman who ‘found’ the first one.

It wasn’t abuse. It was a woman struggling with. Drinking problem and raising her 2 older children on her own

Surely a woman who is having her children removed by their father, is in an abusive situation.

Do you mean reasonable?

One parallel is Elisabeth Fritzl whose abuser "abandoned" three of her children on his own doorstep for his wife to find and raise.

@Limth I think you're right that it's most likely the father doing the abandoning, but what on earth is going on that THREE babies with the same parents are discarded in the street immediately after birth? This isnt a panicking teenager.
It's most likely some sort of abuse, possibly within a family.

The only small crumb of comfort is that the babies survived and will grow up knowing each other, albeit with lots of questions.

No one is saying don’t consider it, what people are saying is don’t assume that’s what it is. And the fact rhe relationship is stable ie she’s sleeping with this man for years, do not assume they live together, that she’s nor single in effect, that she doesn’t have substance abuse, mental health, or other issues.

Oh my, there's clearly something very wrong/unusual going on here with the mother, thank goodness the babies are at least being found and cared for. We don't know that the father is necessarily a partner, it could be a family member, or there could be all sorts of scenarios. I hope that they can figure out who it is and get the help that they desperately need.

Why would you assume it’s the father?

I thought of that case on Long Lost Families when I read the story this morning.

Irresponsible people exist. I wouldn't automatically assume these babies are the result of an abusive relationship, although obviously it's a possibility.

@Theweepywillow because it's the most likely explanation. The same father each time raises that likelihood. Or are you saying he's unaware of three pregnancies?
It's a very disturbing case.

If the mother drinks or takes drugs, tests on the new born babies will tell that about her.
No one wants to take much blood from a tiny baby, especially after they have been left out. But they can tell quite a lot from hair samples, if the usage was regular. Also, baby may have withdrawal symptom, so matbe they actually test.
I am thinking of an abused, emprisoned mother too.

Why would you assume it’s the father?

Because the baby was abandoned very shortly after birth, apparently. It would be surprising if it was the mother. It’s even more remarkable and worrying that she must have given birth three times without nursing or medical care - clearly without the option of CS if that might have been the better plan. This really doesn’t sound like a woman in ‘chaotic’ circumstances; it sounds as if the situation is being closely controlled - by someone.

@Limth "Unlike other MNers, my instinct is that this isn't a desperate mother in a dire abusive situation. My gut feeling is that Elsa has been taken from her mother and left in the park by her biological father."

Sorry, which part of a man stealing a woman's baby to abandon it isn't a dire abusive situation?

Will the dna tests on the babies look at any familial dna between the parents like the Fritzl case?

The relationship is stable enough to have the same dad for eaxh child, over a period of time. Yet she’s desperate enough to abandon the children, and not through normal channels. Not birthed in hospital, no prenatal care. No services involved. That’s not a normal situation and it’s unreasonable to consider abuse as one potential reason for it

What a ridiculous comment. What is it about abandoning THREE babies that says 'stable relationship' to you? It suggests the exact opposite.

There's a woman somewhere who has experienced three full term pregnancies within 8 years with not a soul noticing. That's so so worrying and is more suggestive that this woman ISN'T among any people. Even in a 'normal' abusive relationship (can't think of a better way to phrase it) then the woman often sees the light of day, maybe a neighbour or whatever who'd have noticed.

This is an extreme situation and I think there are two most likely possibilities. Either the woman/couple is in the UK illegally so is too frightened to keep her dc and seek medical care. Or, more likely imo, the woman is kept inside and has no control over this at all. And sees no one who'd have noticed.

Sorry, yes, I agree. I wasn't clear. I meant that I believe it's Elsa's father, not her mother, who physically carried Elsa to the park and leaving her there.

I do believe Elsa's mother is in a horrendously abusive situation. I just meant that I don't think its her that actually physically left Elsa in the park.

What a sad story. I dread to think what is going on for the mother here. I've worked with many mothers who have substance abuse and mental health issues and who have relinquished or had children removed, but this is very far outside the norm even for that cohort, which makes me fear she is experiencing very significant abuse.

I would think the best chance the police have is a DNA match from an unrelated crime or a crime committed by a close family member.

It's just really unusual as well that the baby wasn't born in a hospital. I can't imagine giving birth without pain relief or even a nurse there

I believe Elsa's father is a trafficker who's been keeping Elsa's mother locked up somewhere nearby and pimps her out as a prostitute or a modern slave for a number of years. I believe that during this time, he has been raping her which has resulted in Elsa and her siblings.

I believe that he sees Elsa and her siblings as little but an inconvenience. I believe he sees little other choice than to just abandon these children in the park, so he does.

As you said, this isn't a panicking teenager. I also don't believe this is a 'secret birth' situation. I don't believe a woman could've concealed three pregnancies to full term, concealed three births, and left three babies in a park.

I would hope they've done extensive DNA tests on the children to try and get as much information as possible. Such as ancestry testing which could indicate if both parents are of Nigerian descent or whatever, and familial matches through crime databases. Plus full investigations into where everything found with the baby was bought, what brand of clothing/towels etc were used. Anything to try and get a pattern.

Does that happen in real life or do I watch too much CSI? Or is there just too much red tape and it's not something that would be focused on?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I absolutely believe Elsa's mother is in an unimaginably abusive situation. I meant that I don't think she's the one who's physically abandoned the babies as in took them to the park and laid them on the ground. I believe the biological father did that.

I am listening to this story on woman's hour.
It's unbelievably sad.
I imagine the children (and the mother - and father) will have a lot of psychological trauma from the situation.

I was sick to my stomach reading this story this morning. My first thought, which I see some previous posters have mentioned, is that this may be some sort of incest/close family member abuse situation.

I imagine the woman does not work and is kept inside the home, so possibly no neighbours or colleagues would notice 3 pregnancies. I really fear for the years of abuse she may have been suffering, and for those 3 children. I hope the kids are healthy at least and the two brothers with loving families.

Maybe they should ask the local
community to come forward and volunteer to testing to see if they can find a link?

I did mean “NOT” unreasonable. Not the only explanation, but definitely a plausible one.

There are excuses though. I used to work in child protection and very often women in coercive relationships were not permitted by their 'partners' to use contraception because it was another form of control. We also had a (small) number of cases where trafficked women were giving birth (sometimes in hospital) and would abandon the baby and run back to their traffickers- because they would be killed or their families back home would be harmed if they did not return.

Or cases of incest where babies were the result but abandoned as they were obviously evidence of abuse.

This story makes me think of some of the women I worked with. No agency, no control over their own lives.

It's desperately sad.