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Original poster

Cardiff Mon 22nd, what?

127 replies

Jux · 23/05/2023 14:53

What was going on! A crash in which 2 teens are killed and then a riot, with cops in full gear and shields and teens chucking rocks?

OP posts:
Triflefan · 25/05/2023 14:58

GCWorkNightmare · 25/05/2023 14:24

Ely is quite far from the city centre and has always been deprived/rough. I did my driving test there in the 90s and the instructor said he wouldn’t make me do the emergency stop there because a colleague had had the car jacked the week before.

Show quote history

Ah, I can see that it's not a short walk now! A very short drive though tbh! It takes me longer to get to the local Tesco from where I am.
Deprived area or not, I don't see an excuse for mindless vandalism and aggression.

I did giggle at the test. Why did they even take you there?!

GCWorkNightmare · 25/05/2023 15:46

It was the test route.

There was a school between Ely and my school. The lunch breaks were staggered so when it snowed they used to come to our school and make snowballs with rocks inside to pelt us with.

There has always been violence and aggression linked to the difference between the haves and the have nots in those areas.

I lived in Grangetown for a long time when I left home. I worked in a pub whilst doing my A levels and the locals took me under their wing. I could leave my car unlocked outside my house knowing nothing would happen to it. Outsiders wouldn’t have had the same protection.

Cat2014 · 25/05/2023 16:50

purpleboy · 25/05/2023 14:22

@ReformedWaywardTeen completely agree. We all know the type of petiole you are talking about.
I don't believe that this can happen to anyone. Parents who parent with boundaries and love don't often find themselves in this situation.
A lot of it is learned behavior, cycles repeat themselves, what's the solution? I don't know maybe there should be laws around who can pro create. Especially when innocent people get caught up in their anti social behavior.

’i don’t believe this can happen to anyone’
i am telling you, my friends daughter from a ‘naice’ family with lovely intelligent committed parents who also set boundaries, is struggling at the moment.
i totally agree it’s less LIKELY to happen to just anyone, but as I said, there but for the Grace of god…

Cat2014 · 25/05/2023 16:51

Triflefan · 25/05/2023 14:17

I was in two minds whether or not to comment on this.
I feel desperately sad for the boy’s parents but it seems this was a tragic accident.
I can fully appreciate their immediate need to apportion blame and I hope they have a bit more clarity at some point so they are able to properly grieve rather than being consumed with anger.
The majority of us have done things we should’t have done at some point in our lives and come away unscathed.
That wasn’t the case here and the fact we all make mistakes doesn’t actually excuse any of it.
I have absolutely no idea if these boys were serial offenders on that bike or whether it was a one off and an error of judgement. I think only locals can answer that question.
What followed however was utter insanity.
There are simply no excuses and actually, if these are the role models, that’s a huge concern for the children.

I vaguely know Cardiff and I really like the place. I’m struggling a little with the lack of opportunities take on things. Not just in this case but in general. The city centre is a walk away. There’s plenty going on there to aid direction in life.

You’ve said what I’ve been saying at the beginning of your post! I am not in any shape or form condoning the riots..

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 25/05/2023 16:54

marshmallowmatcha · 23/05/2023 18:17

They insisted there was no police chase. But then there's a video of a police chase. So what's that about? Different kids? This is all a bit odd and I can see why the community are upset. (Though riots and destruction don't help)

A police van was on a regular patrol. The two boys ( on the same bike) saw it and presumably were alarmed because they thought it might be something to do with their activities. So they sped through some bollards were the van couldn’t follow and lost control.

Cat2014 · 25/05/2023 16:56

People follow what they know. Especially with zero education and role models.
It doesnt mean they’re inherently evil or deserve to die or lose children

Magazinenotliving · 25/05/2023 17:07

Cat2014 · 25/05/2023 11:37

And before I get jumped on I know this is completely different but it has one thing in common- parents getting the brunt of the blame. From people who really don’t know

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Quite. None of know the parents or family circumstance here.

MushMonster · 25/05/2023 17:25

It is terrifying. This is an enquiry I will be following closely till completion.
Still not clear whether the police van was nearby or not to me. Not clear what happened to the teens and for whatever reason the riots.
They could have killed neighbours, including children. Fireworks! Ones lit no-one has a control on the trajectory, I could not believe what I saw in the videos. The estate of the area after. The effect this leaves on the people living in that area.
I think serious measures need to be taken to sort this on the long term. Why is this happening and how can they reconcile with the police?

MushMonster · 25/05/2023 17:37

It takes a village to raise a child, they say. And I agree.
Of course family is really important.
But if there are enough bad examples, the promise of lots of money, easy life, threats from gangs, protection offered from gangs and so on, that can make any teen vulnerable.
They are too young to say no, they can threaten them into doing it, coerce them, convince them...
The family may or may have not known where they were, may be involved in buying them the bike or not.

MushMonster · 25/05/2023 17:42

The root issue is that this is not the first time there are riots, there seems to be serious issues with the police in the area, nobody has managed to sort this in ywar and years that it has been unfolding.
Time to stop ignoring the issues. Time to dig deep and deeper on the reasons.
If it is drugs, then flipping arrest and jail the head of the organisations, large sentences for them.

ohsuzannah · 25/05/2023 17:44

It reminds me of this :

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/mayhill-riots-faces-swansea-jailed-25791986

MushMonster · 25/05/2023 18:02

I am from Spain, now living in Wales.
There was an area to the West of where I grew up, rather far, that had a massive issue with drugs. The drug lords settled there and whole year school classes got in trouble. After several years, they had pictures after pictures of young men dead because of it, men and wimen in jail...
It took a really really brave judge to sort it. The drug lords were as powerful as the cartels. They could kill people, police, even judges. A lot of bravery and security had to be involved in this one.

ilovebrie8 · 25/05/2023 18:06

The aftermath was terrifying a firework could have hit or killed someone. It was just luck no one was killed in the riots cars being torched is v scary. Police are humans under the uniform they could’ve been hurt or the public. Stoking up trouble and blaming the police isn’t the answer nor are they to blame. I think they probably panicked when the saw a police van and shot off due to their activities... it’s tragic what happened to the them. Parents blaming police stirred up trouble and they can’t lay it on the police. They’ve weren’t just 2 innocent teens out on a bicycle ...

Cat2014 · 25/05/2023 18:34

MushMonster · 25/05/2023 17:42

The root issue is that this is not the first time there are riots, there seems to be serious issues with the police in the area, nobody has managed to sort this in ywar and years that it has been unfolding.
Time to stop ignoring the issues. Time to dig deep and deeper on the reasons.
If it is drugs, then flipping arrest and jail the head of the organisations, large sentences for them.

Yes!

Cat2014 · 25/05/2023 18:35

ilovebrie8 · 25/05/2023 18:06

The aftermath was terrifying a firework could have hit or killed someone. It was just luck no one was killed in the riots cars being torched is v scary. Police are humans under the uniform they could’ve been hurt or the public. Stoking up trouble and blaming the police isn’t the answer nor are they to blame. I think they probably panicked when the saw a police van and shot off due to their activities... it’s tragic what happened to the them. Parents blaming police stirred up trouble and they can’t lay it on the police. They’ve weren’t just 2 innocent teens out on a bicycle ...

the parents aren’t thinking logically tho - of course not in this circumstance

GiveUsACwtch · 25/05/2023 21:33

Cat2014 · 25/05/2023 19:38

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65693977
the article I was referring to earlier in case people haven’t seen it and are interested

That article is spot on! There is absolutely nothing for the youngsters to do, unless they're into sports... there's some great football and rugby teams in the area. And for many years the community has come together to support and help each other in times of need...but the media won't show that side of us.

I have lived here for 15 years, and one of the only issues I have is with the local high school. The support for parents whose children really need it is shocking. A lot of the teens I know have wonderful hardworking parents, who have certainly not brought them up to behave the way the do, but the support is non existent. Parents are at their wits end and don't know which way to turn next, though of course for some the behaviour is learnt, and the parents couldn't give a flying fuck about what they get up to.

As for the boys, the only thing I will say is that 2 families are having their children's names, aswell as their own, dragged through the mud all over social media from people all over the country...people who don't know them. 2 boys, only 15 and 16 years old with the whole country speculating about them, and their parents having to see or hear about it. I can't even begin to imagine what they are going through, and I really hope that I never have to. My son is 16, he knew both boys quite well, and all though he had never really hung around with them he is devastated!

1offnamechange · 25/05/2023 22:03

gogohmm · 23/05/2023 15:53

If a such a tragedy. Reading up it is a very deprived area with over half of children on free school meals. Multi generational unemployment isn't uncommon. Hopefully this will spur the welsh government into trying to systemically make changes, give hope

Yes funding for poorer communities would be a great idea. As would money on the NHS where the waiting lists for operations are hugely worse than England's.

Or the WG could spend £4billion on changing every single residential road to 20mph. Hmm tough call.

re: the actual incident it's 2 completely separate issues

  1. the issue regarding police involvement in the crash - IOPC will make the final call (and it will also form part of the coronial inquest) but looks like its a bit of an iffy one - basically at some point the van was clearly following the boys but a formal pursuit was not declared. Appropriately trained drivers can self declare a pursuit but still need authorisation from someone suitably senior at control (vans aren't usually appropriate vehicles for pursuits, plus lights/sirens don't seem to be on). As the van then obviously stopped following them and was half a mile away when the crash happened the most that might be found is the van could have slightly contributed to the eventual crash but it could never be found to be the cause of it.

  2. the following riots - no justification for this at all, doubt the vast majority of those involved even knew the boys. Those most affected were either the poor parents or people with no involvement at all like the disabled owner of the car that got torched.

CornishGem1975 · 25/05/2023 22:43

That article is spot on! There is absolutely nothing for the youngsters to do, unless they're into sports... there's some great football and rugby teams in the area.

Isn't that true of most areas though?

Cat2014 · 25/05/2023 23:24

GiveUsACwtch · 25/05/2023 21:33

That article is spot on! There is absolutely nothing for the youngsters to do, unless they're into sports... there's some great football and rugby teams in the area. And for many years the community has come together to support and help each other in times of need...but the media won't show that side of us.

I have lived here for 15 years, and one of the only issues I have is with the local high school. The support for parents whose children really need it is shocking. A lot of the teens I know have wonderful hardworking parents, who have certainly not brought them up to behave the way the do, but the support is non existent. Parents are at their wits end and don't know which way to turn next, though of course for some the behaviour is learnt, and the parents couldn't give a flying fuck about what they get up to.

As for the boys, the only thing I will say is that 2 families are having their children's names, aswell as their own, dragged through the mud all over social media from people all over the country...people who don't know them. 2 boys, only 15 and 16 years old with the whole country speculating about them, and their parents having to see or hear about it. I can't even begin to imagine what they are going through, and I really hope that I never have to. My son is 16, he knew both boys quite well, and all though he had never really hung around with them he is devastated!

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Absolutely. Finally a compassionate and sensible comment- unsurprisingly from someone who actually has local knowledge!

SoTedious · 26/05/2023 08:52

I’m struggling a little with the lack of opportunities take on things. Not just in this case but in general. The city centre is a walk away. There’s plenty going on there to aid direction in life.

I suppose it's possible to walk it, but it's a long walk, well over an hour and could easily be an hour and a half depending on where in Ely you were starting from.

What sort of things are going on in Cardiff that you would recommend for teens from Ely?

VisionsOfSplendour · 26/05/2023 10:15

Cat2014 · 25/05/2023 16:50

’i don’t believe this can happen to anyone’
i am telling you, my friends daughter from a ‘naice’ family with lovely intelligent committed parents who also set boundaries, is struggling at the moment.
i totally agree it’s less LIKELY to happen to just anyone, but as I said, there but for the Grace of god…

Show quote history

You're right to say that sometimes children from what might be seen as "nice families " do go off the rails but I think we can see that this is not what's happening in that area.

I suspect that most of us recognise from the photos we've seen of these boys exactly the type of lives they are living and ways that they behave

The reasons aren't simple and obviously need to be addressed, your friend's daughter and the like aren't comparable

SoTedious · 26/05/2023 10:19

You're right to say that sometimes children from what might be seen as "nice families " do go off the rails but I think we can see that this is not what's happening in that area.

What can you tell about the boys' families from the photos you have seen?

ReformedWaywardTeen · 26/05/2023 10:47

SoTedious · 26/05/2023 10:19

You're right to say that sometimes children from what might be seen as "nice families " do go off the rails but I think we can see that this is not what's happening in that area.

What can you tell about the boys' families from the photos you have seen?

Really?
The photos in the news say it all.
One of the mums they've used social media photos of, she's a grown woman with a teenager and she's doing duck lips selfies.

SoTedious · 26/05/2023 11:00

Really?
The photos in the news say it all.
One of the mums they've used social media photos of, she's a grown woman with a teenager and she's doing duck lips selfies.

Really? We're judging people's parenting based on a mum's selfie - what does that have to do with how she has raised her son?
(Can you post the pic?)