Page 34 | Missing Woman Nicola Bulley 5

ofwarren · 2023-02-08T20:38:30+00:00

A new thread about the disappearance of Nicola Bulley in St Michael's on Wyre, Lancashire.

confounded234 · 09/02/2023 16:04

davegrohll · 09/02/2023 16:03

But apparently the police wasn't called until 11am? So her partner didn't immediately call the police did he ? Or does it mean the lady who tied the dog up left it that long to notify anyone?

For whatever reason, the family member of the dog walker who found the phone, didn't ring the school till 10.50. The school immediately rang Paul who immediately rang the police.

Renoir56 · 09/02/2023 16:05

schloss · 09/02/2023 14:43

I have read this thread, and the previous ones, I do not usually comment on such things however I would like to give some insight into how "witnesses" to events are not always correct in what they report. My job can involve asking a number of people about certain events, it is a known issue that people differ in what they saw and report, there is no malicious action involved, it is purely how people behave.

I have been in the situation of asking very professional people to describe an event, I can receive very differing reports, to the point when it becomes almost impossible to know what is correct. Added to that, some people are easily influenced by the people questioning them, therefore providing the answers they "think" those people want to hear.

So in this situation, the differing narratives as to where the mobile phone was, could purely be the witness or witnesses, believing it was on the bench, but if a police officer then asks "are you sure it was no on the floor?" a witness then may answer " thinking about it, the phone may have been on the floor".

This scenario is a know issue when gathering information, so unless there are photographs or CCTV to confirm a situation, it is known that witnesses do not always provide 100% correct information as to what happened. It could be what it happening to cause the differences in reports as to the timeline and what happened?

Moving on the the police actions (this is not a criticism of Lancs police), they are only human, some humans will stick very to an initial opinion and not deviate from that opinion no matter what, others will be more open to outside help. The situation with the other search team, is it a case of the police had their feather ruffled and only allowed a small amount of "help" from him, with opinions differing as to if a body was in the water and if so, if it would be found?

A different force may have been more open and appreciated an external opinion and help? The sudden departure of the search team may explain the situation being the former rather than the latter?

In many professional environments having information means you can control the situation, if you do not have the information, sometimes behaviour is affected to the extent outward actions come across as though information is being held back, in order to protect the belief in only one scenario and the lack of proper information to confirm it. It can almost be an act of self protection.

I have certainly come across many professionals who will stick like glue to a scenario rather than allow others to assist or provide an alternattive narrative, on the other hand I have worked with many professionals who will consider anything and are very much a "say what you think, no matter how ludicrous it sounds, as it may help".

Moving on, I have looked at the latest available ONS stats on suicide - for women 45% are by hanging or similar, deliberate drowing is only the 4th most common method of suicide and is a very low percentage.

Finally, add in the media and I am not surprised there is an element of differing information being available and sometime Lancs police looking like they are witholding information (they may be for good reasons). I think the statement "we believe the most likely scenario is this was an accidental slip into the water with subsequent drowing, the reasons for this are X,Y,Z. We will pursue that opinion because of X,Y and Z but of course will always keep an open mind to other scenario, but the information we have means other scenario are unlikely" would have been better received and caused less speculation.

Really well thought out and interesting, thank you.

I have experience of an accident taking place and how witnesses behaved. Initially there were 11 witnesses who came forward. In fact, when it came to evidence that would stand up in court there were no witnesses at all. They had all seen the aftermath of the incident not the incident itself and narratives varied wildly in detail. Witnesses are not always reliable.

I say this because when the person found the phone they wouldn't have realised the significance of the situation and so if asked whether the phone was on the bench or the ground they might not be sure, and definitely open to suggestion.

In the same way when Nicola's partner was asked what she was wearing that day he probably wasn't sure as it was an everyday event for her to take the kids to school. Hence the initial description of what she was wearing wasn't exact and changed slightly when backed up by the Ring doorbell footage.

anotherdaydollar · 09/02/2023 16:06

Are we making assumptions about the mental wellbeing of NB or has this information actually been disclosed?

User45378754 · 09/02/2023 16:06

Peverellshire · 09/02/2023 15:46

Agree, it seems a shame if so, we can't (?) respect her wishes.

IMO he problem is many of the public don't really understand about the police having private information that changes things a bit so just see incompetence, inertia and anger builds as incompetence, imagined. This puts pressure on the force and on the spokesperson. Being very succinct and very clear in that case likely best. Having a strong boundary with no long press conferences?

It can be the same over misunderstandings where emotions run high around children and medical treatment,.

People can spot inauthenticity too, even with the noblest intent.

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Yes I think that’s what’s seems to be happening here.

Miscommunications as police have to frame commentary in specific and sensitive ways that say enough but not to much as well as keep an open mind vs friends / public who are then confused and frustrated by this stance and the family who are in the middle who are the least visible and most vulnerable in all of this.

EachandEveryone · 09/02/2023 16:10

Have they taken Willow back there?

Goldpaw · 09/02/2023 16:10

confounded234 · 09/02/2023 14:29

I read that the bodies of 2 of the cockles who died in the Morecambe bay disaster were never found.

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This is true although the skull of one of them was found a few years later.

The bay is treacherous. Several rivers run into it, it has quicksands, an enormous tidal reach and you have the bore that means the tides move very quickly.

davegrohll · 09/02/2023 16:17

@confounded234 ahh now it makes more sense. Thank you

WombsofWimbledon · 09/02/2023 16:19

melonraspberry · 09/02/2023 06:46

So the police are searching closer to the sea today?

What will they do next, - maybe they will go quiet for a bit to try and calm things , I wonder if that would work. Tilly Rose is doing a really good job with her updates, her language is very clear.

I don’t remember another situation like this ever? I was a journo working on the Jill Dando trial and it was very obvious at the trial to all of us that they had the wrong man, but there wasn’t as much public interest as this .

There was huge public interest in the Jill Dando case. There wasn’t, however, social media.

MeinKraft · 09/02/2023 16:21

'About a million easier ways to kill yourself than trying to drown in shallow water (especially given she was a strong swimmer) leaving her dog outside on his own. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.'

Someone who's made a snap decision to end their lives probably isn't thinking particularly clearly at that point.

SueG60 · 09/02/2023 16:25

Quveas · 09/02/2023 12:26

I'm sorry but you are wrong. Homeless shelters do not enquire who people are, or maintain records of them. Very few old people now don't have a bank acount because it is nigh on impossible to draw your pension without one. Etc. Etc. I was at our local CCTV service a few weeks ago and you wouldn't believe the number of "missing people" they have listed for many years. The reality is that if someone wishes to go missing it is really easy, even without creating a false identity; and creating a false identity isn't as hard as you'd assume either. You also assume that people going missing in the UK stay in the UK. If you have a will to disappear, it is far easier than you'd think, and even when those people are reported missing (some aren't) the police don't have the resources to go looking for them all. The will only seriously look for someone if they have reasonabe grounds to suspect a crime has been committed or the person is vulnerable. And without evidence of either, they have no grounds to go searching for them beyond the obvious and limited options.

I work with disadvantaged and vulnerable groups, and I see people who have little or no "identity" all the time, and many of those are people who have made no attempt whatsoever to disappear. They simply live below the "radar" that much of society can buy into, If you choose to not buy into it you can go missing for years if not forever.

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I don't agree its easy, how do they go about getting food with no money.

Anyway, this is a bit beside the point, because the only valid example given is the homeless who have no job, often no family to take them in, addiction issues etc. And they don't often last long.

The idea that a healthy 45 year old with a home, a good job and a family would choose to go off grid and become homeless isn't realistic.

The suicide or intentionally self disappearing theories should stop, there would definitely be some evidence easily accessible to the police via financial records or communications to back up anything like that. Its clear thats not whats happened so don't know why people waste time saying it could be the reason.

Mannymoomin · 09/02/2023 16:26

I’ve read a few comments on these threads and all I can say is I really hope NB is found soon so her family can get some answers, the not knowing must be awful.

It is sad that there’s so much speculation as to what’s happened to her, but I suppose if it keeps people talking then something can at least be taken from it.

Her poor girls will likely need therapy when they’re older, especially if it ends up being awful news, or no news at all, to have your mum disappear at an age where the only importance in the world is your parents.

LadyHarmby · 09/02/2023 16:26

User45378754 · 09/02/2023 15:52

I think this is a possibility.

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Agree and would explain why the police fixated on the river theory from pretty much the first moment. They were searching the water the same afternoon.

Goldpaw · 09/02/2023 16:29

@schloss

Thanks for that post. Lancashire Constabulary being narked at Peter F and his team's involvement is how I read the situation. There doesn't seem to be any love lost and LC attitude came across as, "We don't need your help thanks, we've got experts of our own."

Likewise SI Riley could do to go on a communications refresher. It's how she's being saying things imo that has led to a lot of the speculation. Plus the mistakes she's made with things like the name of the road. She hasn't inspired confidence. One of the officers who has posted on Mumsnet mentioned that the SIO wasn't giving the press briefings for whatever reason.

What you say about some people being closed to "interference" and alternative scenarios rings true. I'm one of the let's hear your ideas and if you've got expertise we want it types!
Thanks again @schloss

User45378754 · 09/02/2023 16:31

SueG60 · 09/02/2023 16:25

I don't agree its easy, how do they go about getting food with no money.

Anyway, this is a bit beside the point, because the only valid example given is the homeless who have no job, often no family to take them in, addiction issues etc. And they don't often last long.

The idea that a healthy 45 year old with a home, a good job and a family would choose to go off grid and become homeless isn't realistic.

The suicide or intentionally self disappearing theories should stop, there would definitely be some evidence easily accessible to the police via financial records or communications to back up anything like that. Its clear thats not whats happened so don't know why people waste time saying it could be the reason.

Show quote history

The suicide or intentionally self disappearing theories should stop, there would definitely be some evidence easily accessible to the police via financial records or communications to back up anything like that. Its clear thats not whats happened so don't know why people waste time saying it could be the reason.

Who are you to know this the SIO?

What a bizarre comment.

Gramps52 · 09/02/2023 16:33

I'm not saying she has done away with herself but having been almost there myself, the only thing that stopped me was not been able to think of a way without it been seen as suicide and to have my family live with the stigma.

Lunde · 09/02/2023 16:33

Such a horrific case - I'm really sad for what the family having to go through this.

It brings up memories as my brother disappeared in the early 1980s. He just vanished one day despite his (ostensibly) "normal" life as a middle class, privately educated, specialist accountant. He had had some issues with depression but being the height of the Thatcher government's cutbacks he had waited over a year for a MH appointment having been referred "urgently" by the GP. Police interest was rather tepid - they had a quick walk through the immediate family's houses and turned up periodically with details of bodies found in the Thames. The Police attitude seemed to be certain that he had committed suicide. My parents hired private investigator but nothing was found.

16 years later he was found but had died the night before. He had lived under the radar for 16 years in Central London and was found dead in a park in Mayfair where he was a "regular". Sadly he was killed by someone who likely thought they were "being kind" to the homeless guy by giving him a corporate hospitality bottle of whiskey just before Christmas - but it caused his death through acute alcohol poisoning.

It is clear that my brother just walked out of his life and managed to stay hidden for all of those years although this was likely easier before the social media era. He clearly had his own MH issues and with the benefit of hindsight he also had ASD/ADHD - but these were not diagnosed back in the 1980s. However the issue that we are left is as a family, which will never be answered, is why he chose to disappear and why he chose to live on the streets rather than ask for help.

Goldpaw · 09/02/2023 16:34

When I say officers I mean a general police officer outwith Lancs Constab, not one of the ones working on the case.

LadyHarmby · 09/02/2023 16:36

The suicide or intentionally self disappearing theories should stop, there would definitely be some evidence easily accessible to the police via financial records or communications to back up anything like that. Its clear thats not whats happened so don't know why people waste time saying it could be the reason

Or you could consider whether the police have that information and haven’t made it public.

MeinKraft · 09/02/2023 16:37

'The suicide or intentionally self disappearing theories should stop, there would definitely be some evidence easily accessible to the police via financial records or communications to back up anything like that. Its clear thats not whats happened so don't know why people waste time saying it could be the reason.'

It's not clear at all, in fact it's by far the more likely scenario. The police have been through her phone, her social media, conducted interviews with her family friends to get a picture of her state of mind. They think she entered the water. They have all the available information and we do not.

Bluebellwood129 · 09/02/2023 16:37

Goldpaw · 09/02/2023 16:29

@schloss

Thanks for that post. Lancashire Constabulary being narked at Peter F and his team's involvement is how I read the situation. There doesn't seem to be any love lost and LC attitude came across as, "We don't need your help thanks, we've got experts of our own."

Likewise SI Riley could do to go on a communications refresher. It's how she's being saying things imo that has led to a lot of the speculation. Plus the mistakes she's made with things like the name of the road. She hasn't inspired confidence. One of the officers who has posted on Mumsnet mentioned that the SIO wasn't giving the press briefings for whatever reason.

What you say about some people being closed to "interference" and alternative scenarios rings true. I'm one of the let's hear your ideas and if you've got expertise we want it types!
Thanks again @schloss

I agree with all of this.

confounded234 · 09/02/2023 16:37

Lunde · 09/02/2023 16:33

Such a horrific case - I'm really sad for what the family having to go through this.

It brings up memories as my brother disappeared in the early 1980s. He just vanished one day despite his (ostensibly) "normal" life as a middle class, privately educated, specialist accountant. He had had some issues with depression but being the height of the Thatcher government's cutbacks he had waited over a year for a MH appointment having been referred "urgently" by the GP. Police interest was rather tepid - they had a quick walk through the immediate family's houses and turned up periodically with details of bodies found in the Thames. The Police attitude seemed to be certain that he had committed suicide. My parents hired private investigator but nothing was found.

16 years later he was found but had died the night before. He had lived under the radar for 16 years in Central London and was found dead in a park in Mayfair where he was a "regular". Sadly he was killed by someone who likely thought they were "being kind" to the homeless guy by giving him a corporate hospitality bottle of whiskey just before Christmas - but it caused his death through acute alcohol poisoning.

It is clear that my brother just walked out of his life and managed to stay hidden for all of those years although this was likely easier before the social media era. He clearly had his own MH issues and with the benefit of hindsight he also had ASD/ADHD - but these were not diagnosed back in the 1980s. However the issue that we are left is as a family, which will never be answered, is why he chose to disappear and why he chose to live on the streets rather than ask for help.

I'm sorry to hear that. That's a very sad story, my thoughts go out to you and your family.

User45378754 · 09/02/2023 16:38

MeinKraft · 09/02/2023 16:21

'About a million easier ways to kill yourself than trying to drown in shallow water (especially given she was a strong swimmer) leaving her dog outside on his own. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.'

Someone who's made a snap decision to end their lives probably isn't thinking particularly clearly at that point.

Weirs are called ‘drowning machines’ in the US. Loads of accidents and suicides in these locations.

Eatentoomanyroses · 09/02/2023 16:39

@Lunde I’m sorry

lemmein · 09/02/2023 16:39

@Lunde what a tragic story. I'm so sorry that happened to your family, especially him dying the date before he was found- just awful

Goldpaw · 09/02/2023 16:40

The weir on the Wyre is nowt like that picture!