I'd like to discuss the John Hogan case, but I dont want it to descend into a 'lynch' thread

[VVVQV]

It aint gonna happen, is it?

I promise no pitchforks or chorus of 'hang the b*strd' if that helps....

Sorry but who he?

Do you mean a 'Hang the Bastard' type affair?

Don't think I've been around long enough to know (but can probably guess)

But to answer your original Q, think the fact he had 2 brothers who both commited suicide is tragically telling

ONe never hears of a woman jumping out of window/taking children with them.......do we? It's always blokes, n'est-ce pas? Tragic.

Don't know much about the case but 2 siblings commiting suicide certainly suggests a predisposition to serious mental health issues.

Yes, wariness of pitchforks and "string him up by the balls" type comments.

Pan, it's certainly not unknown for mothers to do the same.

It's a terribly tragic scenario. I agree that he couldnt have been well, and his family history would back that up. What sane person could do that to their own child/ren?

wishful thinking VVV but I predict a riot....

No, it's not always blokes. There was that woman who jumped off a bridge with her child a few years ago. I think they survived. She was under extreme stress too

i would like to think he was clinically unbalanced, rather than doing what he did as cold and calculating act

despite this, he will punish himself until the end of his days no doubt, he has lost his son by his own hand, hurt his daughter and his wife has divorced him

his life is ruined beyond all measure, but not as much as the life of his wife and daughter

it must be hell on earth

There was a woman in London who threw herself, her older daughter and the toddler in the buggy under a train.

anyone know why (presumably legal reasons) he is pleading not guilty when he clearly did do it?

Agree, absolutely definitely unstable

I guess people are sometimes deluded in that they believe with complete conviction those that they take with them (namely, the children) are genuinely better off dead.

But I'm not sure that this is the correct scenario for this man.

I see.

It is a very sad case and does sound as though the man had some sort of familial mental illness - however there does seem to be a certain type of male mindset that thinks it's somehow OK to hurt your own children just to hurt your wife (and it's always when the wife has either left, threatened to leave or shown any signs of beginning a relationship with another man. The men who commit this particular crime think that both women and children are a man's property.) Women do sometimes kill their children along with themselves, but this seems to be more often a cracking-under-pressure thing (I remember one story of a woman whose daughter had severe SN and they were bullied by neighbours).
I have slightly more sympathy for the man who attacked and killed his 2-year-old daughter during an episode of complete psychosis, an awful tragic case that sadly nothing could have prevented.

There was that woman who ran onto the railway tracks with her ds in a buggy - in London, I think.

In this case, sounds as if he used the children to hurt his wife. Which I think is often the case with men who kill their children - it's an act of aggression against the mother. Often linked to domestic violence.

Women who kill their children seem to act more out of despair - there was that poor woman who threw herself and her child off the Humber bridge, for instance.

Do you think not as much as his wife and daughter lulu?

The guilt he must feel though.

Unbearable.

I can't imagine that any sentence will be as bad as the life sentence he serving inside his head. He killed his son. He has to live with that knowledge every day for the rest of his life.
An utterly tragic case for everyone involved, including John Hogan.

Popmum I think it hinges on whether he planned to do it or not. Whether it was a spur of the moment rather than intentional act. From what I've read anyway

I agree with Madmamez.

agree, madamez, that city banker type who killed his daughter during a psychotic episode does seem (to me) deserving of more sympathy.

popmum - because he is (presumably) claiming that he did not have the right criminal intent to commit the crime (ie murder/attemped murder) because the balance of his mind was disturbed.

I think the murder charge in Greece involves it being calculated/pre-meditated?? Perhaps they dont have a direct equivalent to manslaughter?