Archie Battersbee thread 5

[henryhihat]

New thread...

Yeah, she has been doing that a lot over the past week.
I wonder if she is accepting how dire things are. It is hard to tell.

I wonder if the ventilator was continued but the monitors removed and fluids, potassium, vasopressin and hydrocortisone discontinued, would that be a bit more acceptable to family. That way I expect the hypovolemia, hypotension and electrolyte derangement that would ensue would cause cardiac arrest fairly quickly but there wouldn't be the ventilator unplugging and extubation obvious "big moment" and they could check for cessation of heartbeat after a while then stop the ventilator after. I know it's a bit backwards but if it was likely to be as smooth as the usual procedure, that might be a reasonable compromise.

Because when he hanged himself blood flow to and within his his brain was obstructed and it was without oxygen for too long and most of it died.

Initial blood flow studies showed that were was a tiny amount of residual blood flow but after hypoxic injury cells swell and release toxins and his brain swelled further and then the rest of it died. There was been no blood flow to his brain for months and months.

There is oxygen contained in the body cavity so other organs, including the heart, can survive for up to 30 min without breathing. But blood needs to still be flowing for that to happen, not blocked off with a tight dressing gown cord.

That’s what the CLC want though, they’ve argued for this. They don’t want the “beating heart” to be stopped by removal of ventilation. It might appease Hollie but it feeds into the CLC’s wider agenda.

@SunflowerGardens legal fees don't work like that. To be eligible for legal fees you have to be informed of the cost (or at least an estimate) at the beginning. The lawyers in this case have confirmed it's pro bono so there are no legal fees. You can't decide at the end of a pro bono legal case that you want paying.

But surely as soon as the ligature was removed from his neck, the blood flow to his brain would have resumed as soon as the heart started beating again? So obviously initially he was without oxygen for too long and his brain was damaged, why can blood still not flow to his brain now, despite it being damaged, given the obstruction has been removed?

@curiousitygotthebetterofme the ligature will have damaged his carotid arteries meaning blood can't flow to his brain. The court documents state how his brain is necrotic and falling into his spine. It's extremely sad and traumatic.

No one knows how long the ligature was in place... and if his heart had stopped, then that would also mean no blood flow to his brain.

It does not take long for the brain to suffer injury after being denied oxygen. It does not matter if blood flow is resumed.. the damage is done.

It really is. Out of all the horrific things we hear on the news all the time, this really sticks out in my mind. It’s just so sad. I feel so badly for his family.

The skull is essentially a closed box. It’s filled with brain, cerebral spinal fluid (CSF) and intracerebral blood. The volumes of these are usually fairly constant but if the volume of one increases there needs to be some compensation from the others to make room.

When you sustain a hypoxic brain injury the injured cells swell up. In response the pressure inside the skull rises and in response to that blood vessels will constrict reducing the amount of blood flow and CSF is displaced into the spinal column. Eventually these mechanisms cannot be sustained and a critical point is reached where pressure rises dramatically. If the brain continues to swell it then compresses the blood vessels obstructing blood flow causing further injury. The brain then goes to the only place it can. The whole at the bottom where the spinal cord travels.

Blood vessels are also made up of cells so they will get damaged and vessel walls then become leaky.

Everything together results in significant obstruction of blood flow to the brain.

*hole not whole. Apologies.

I would really like to thank the legal and medical posters hee for helping to explain the difficult and sensitive information about this case. Also all intensive care staff for the amazing work they do. I really hope the family see sense and realise the best gift they can give Archie is to let him go, with them present in his room in the hospital

Simply put, if you block off oxygen for long enough there’s a point of no return. The cells die.

Is it correct to say necrotic = black dead tissue (similar to fingers on a mountain climber caught in a storm for example)?

And gangrene = the same PLUS infection?

His skin would still be warm, blood is flowing through his skin but not to his brain. The vascular system is not one simple looped circuit, each bit linked to the previous and the next.

Its a branched system, and the brain has its own loop with multiple branches off it.

Cutting off the blood supply where it typically occurs with a hanging, you cut off the supply to the brain, but not to the skin.

Just like any other body part really, swelling can cut circulation, but unlike other body parts, the brain cannot swell much before this happens and the pressure would need to be relieved (if thats even possible) by making holes in the skull, letting blood out if there is a haematoma, putting in shunts etc... AFAIK and, I am not a doctor, you can't relieve the pressure of a swollen, coning brainstem, you support the body and either it stops or.. it doesn't.

Again like any other body part, stop circulation and oxygenation long enough and the tissue dies and it wouldn't matter if you could pump blood through it again, it wouldn't 'live' - This is why theres such a short timeframe for transplants or re-attachment of severed limbs (And that tissue has to be in peak condition to start with!).

Necrotic tissue is dead - what it looks like would vary according to where it is, what it has been exposed to etc.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's gone black or runny or whatever, its just dead, its not functioning any more.

People who have had a heart attack or like me, heart failure can have dead tissue in their hearts (I have, thats a scary word to read in your consultants letter!) and yet remain alive (hello, defo not a ghost).

The state of Archies brain though and brains like his that have suffered huge swelling and long term loss of circulation - I have assumed (from the reports on the MRI's) that starts to turn to liquid and if the body is supported long enough that liquid will be reabsorbed until there is very little matter left. In the case of TK who was on life support for 20 years following brain death, they were left with a calcified lump of what turned out to be blood mainly, not brain.

But brain and muscle are not the same sorts of tissue, and within a living or at least, supported body, they're not exposed to the elements like frost bitten fingers would be.

I do get if the hospice has only agreed to accept to care for his body until it's time to go to the funeral directors. My local
Children's hospice certainly used to do this. They have a beautiful cold suite for the family. They used to be able to stay until the funeral in some cases.

*do wonder.

terrible remarks on the AA page just now.

Let’s see what today brings.

vm.tiktok.com/ZMNb53QbM/?k=1

The Dignity For All page has posted a Tik Tok !??!) video of Holly asking people not to phone the hospital - the nurses have better things to do than answer their narcissistic questions.....

When the blood supply was cut off to his neck, the lack of oxygen caused massive swelling in the brain. The brain pushed downwards. At the bottom of the skull the spine is connected and the spine is much narrower than the skull. The brain was squashed and pushed down through that hole (coning) and blood supply cut off. Unfortunately, the skull is a fixed box, so any matter that shouldn't be there (extra liquid, swelling, tumours) can be life threatening.

i can imagine some people are ringing

Dear kid, I've just seen!!! Unbelievable

Hollie winding the 'army' up further!

I wonder if the decision is today and what that means if they fail the hospice bid move. Will the court rule switching him off today or will they give them another 24 hours? Surely there comes a point when his body is such a bad way the courts say no more.