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Archie Battersbee thread 5

1000 replies

henryhihat · 04/08/2022 11:09

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mummabubs · 04/08/2022 22:33

prh47bridge · 04/08/2022 22:11

I hope what makes your blood boil is the mother making this claim. It is, of course, not true.

Oh god yes. I have inevitable sympathy for her as a mother, but to throw this comment out so callously when all the team there has done IS care for Archie, 24/7, for months just stings.

Eeksteek · 04/08/2022 22:35

VeeraTC · 04/08/2022 22:26

One thing is clear, this cannot be allowed to happen again. It's truly shocking how this has dragged on because early on the parents refused to allow a brain stem test at the time it should have happened. People on social media have latched on to it like it's a real life soap opera. So much about this case has been abhorrent, and very hard to watch for those of us who have been in a similar situation.

I hope Archie passes peacefully and I wish his family well in the difficult times ahead. But this cannot keep happening.

It must. There is no alternative.

No one must have the right to consent on behalf of another person
Layman must have the right to challenge the medics
courts must order best interest treatments when it cannot be agreed between medics and parents
respondents must be able to appeal court decisions
parents must be allowed to be supported by organisations (even deeply abhorrent one’s)

We can’t change any of things, and remain a free, just and civilised society. They are not often tested to this degree. But the fact that they can be at any time, by anyone, and occasionally are, keeps everyone in the system honest, competent and professional as far as is possible (perfection is not possible)

Fadeout83 · 04/08/2022 22:37

mummabubs · 04/08/2022 21:02

Apparently Archie's received no care at all. Can't lie, as an NHS worker this made my blood boil slightly.

I really hope once this is over and there has been time to process everything, the work of the ICU nurses and doctors is acknowledged by the family. Because then are angels on earth. My father spent a few days in ICU following a catastrophic stroke. He was brain dead. I will never forget his nurse. She was the most beautiful soul. The dignity they afforded to him was unbelievable. Everything they did to him during his care was preceded by an explanation to him about what was happening - “DF, now I’m are just going to move you to this side to make space for x”. He was dead and we all understood that but the fact they were still treating him like a human being and not a body will stay with me forever. They were incredible and I am sure they are behaving in the same way with this beautiful little boy.

Unforgettablefire · 04/08/2022 22:42

@Eeksteek that is so beautiful and touching. What angels.

Toddlerteaplease · 04/08/2022 22:45

The nurses, those highly stressed and highly skilled people making life and death decisions and actions every minute of every 14 hour shift, took the time to cut the tape into little hearts to stick on those beautiful babies’ faces and make seeing the tubes and wires just a tiny bit less distressing for their parents.

I always do this. Hearts or Christmas trees. As they are the only shapes I can cut!

whynotwhatknot · 04/08/2022 22:55

VeeraTC · 04/08/2022 22:26

One thing is clear, this cannot be allowed to happen again. It's truly shocking how this has dragged on because early on the parents refused to allow a brain stem test at the time it should have happened. People on social media have latched on to it like it's a real life soap opera. So much about this case has been abhorrent, and very hard to watch for those of us who have been in a similar situation.

I hope Archie passes peacefully and I wish his family well in the difficult times ahead. But this cannot keep happening.

i agree they sholdnt have had to take this to curt to prove what thye were trying to say because of parents saying no

Eeksteek · 04/08/2022 22:57

Badger1970 · 04/08/2022 22:28

Perhaps a hospice has offered a private space for Archie and his family post hospital withdrawal? A fairly immediate transfer would give them all an element of privacy and they could then have time in a different environment to say their final goodbyes as a family.

Whatever is happening, I hope that Archie is finding his way to resting.

It’s possible, I suppose. But I hypothesise that once the last nurse leaves the room, even leaving everything in situ, Archie will have seconds before his heart stops, even if no one does anything else. They aren’t just ‘looking after him’ they are actively working ON him, all the time. If someone any less skilled were to try to move him, he’ll arrest. He’s just too fragile, too unregulated without the team’s constant attention.

I know people think the ventilator just pushes air in and out, and that’s ICU. It’s nothing, nothing like that simple anyway, but in this case, it’s like a more like he’s actively in surgery. There’s a whole team basically being his body for him, all the time.

And they can’t just let Mum take him, in her naivety, knowing it comes to the same thing in the end and he won’t know. They HAVE to do what’s best for Archie, or they won’t be medical professionals anymore, at least in their own heads, and possibly by their registrant bodies. They are legally and morally bound by Archie’s best interests. It defines you. They probably already go home and question how to get out between this rock and hard place with their sanity, professionalism and humanity intact. Someone said up thread that swathes of staff just leave after a case like this. It’s too much to bear. I do feel for his mother, but her wilful ignorance of what is being done for her son is staggering. Understandable, but bordering on malice. Those poor, poor staff.

SidandAndyssextoy · 04/08/2022 22:57

We lost my niece and nephew as children to a genetic condition. My nephew died in PICU and the staff there were incredible. He has his breathing tube removed as there was no hope for recovery, and the alternative would have been waiting for an opportunistic infection. Although that decision was made with his parents agreement (and a transfer to a hospice declined), his mother did end up getting very very upset about a really tactless comment that one member of staff had made without thinking and devoted several months afterwards to a long complaint. Although a full apology was made, and all other care was exemplary, it shows how fragile that trust can be in such a distressing situation.

My niece died in a hospice, and her heart failed when being turned in bed. We were warned that this can be a huge stress on the body at the end of life, and she was not brain dead. Even something as simple as that was overwhelming for her heart by that stage. The hospice was wonderful but is not set up for any sort of high level medical care. The one she was at had a palliative consultant involved in clinical decisions and medications that needed specialist input but most prescriptions and day to day medical care went through the local GP.

knickersniff · 04/08/2022 23:05

I keep thinking what if all insisted on being transferred to a hospice in our final day/days .. how would we fund this ?

TurquoiseDragon · 04/08/2022 23:06

Fadeout83 · 04/08/2022 22:37

I really hope once this is over and there has been time to process everything, the work of the ICU nurses and doctors is acknowledged by the family. Because then are angels on earth. My father spent a few days in ICU following a catastrophic stroke. He was brain dead. I will never forget his nurse. She was the most beautiful soul. The dignity they afforded to him was unbelievable. Everything they did to him during his care was preceded by an explanation to him about what was happening - “DF, now I’m are just going to move you to this side to make space for x”. He was dead and we all understood that but the fact they were still treating him like a human being and not a body will stay with me forever. They were incredible and I am sure they are behaving in the same way with this beautiful little boy.

While we were with Dad in his final few minutes, the nurse was there, monitoring things. He even went out and came back with a box of tissues (I needed those), all the while being respectful and unobtrusive. I thanked him for his care afterwards, staff on those wards must deal with a high level of stress.

SidandAndyssextoy · 04/08/2022 23:10

Anyone can ask for a hospice transfer. Some people may not be able to go for medical reasons, and for others a place may not be available, but it’s open to anyone to ask.

Hospice at home is also available for people who are able to be cared for outside a hospital.

Hospices cannot care for anyone who requires a high level of medical support which makes them unsuitable for those on ventilators.

nolongersurprised · 04/08/2022 23:23

Lougle · 04/08/2022 22:23

Vasopressin is a potent vasopressor but it does have a small inotropic effect, too. Part of the consequence of diabetes insipidus is profound hypotension through volume depletion, so vasopressin will be responsible for maintaining blood pressure alongside the plasma-lyte infusion.

Similarly, without the hydrocortisone he’d be hypotensive (and hypoglycaemic) and quickly, too.

children with Addison’s or other reasons to not make cortisol have very tightly managed plans for replacement - oral hydrocortisone every day as maintenance, increased “stress” doses for mild illnesses and intravenous hydrocortisone when unwell, with surgery, or unable to absorb oral meds. An adrenal crisis (low blood pressure, circulatory shut down) can happen as easily as after a night of a fever, less food, a few vomits and less well absorbed oral meds.

What a mess.

If Hollie does jump on his body to do CPR after he’s extubated surely there hospital would have to let her? It won’t work and it’s a horrible way to have to let him go but, again, maybe it’s part of her “can’t give up fighting” mentality. And who would pull her off??

SunflowerGardens · 04/08/2022 23:30

Oh they've just mentioned on ITV news they're waiting for a ruling still?! At this time of night?

PeloAddict · 04/08/2022 23:32

SunflowerGardens · 04/08/2022 23:30

Oh they've just mentioned on ITV news they're waiting for a ruling still?! At this time of night?

I wonder if they're trying to get everything watertight and somehow say no more appeals?

nolongersurprised · 04/08/2022 23:34

To add: Archie doesn’t have Addison’s which is an autoimmune condition affecting the adrenal glands and means someone can’t make cortisol.

He can’t make cortisol because he doesn’t have a functioning pituitary gland, which makes a hormone called ACTH which stimulates the production of cortisol. Although who knows what state his adrenal gland is in, after he was without oxygen for so long?

SunflowerGardens · 04/08/2022 23:42

Toddlerteaplease · 04/08/2022 22:45

The nurses, those highly stressed and highly skilled people making life and death decisions and actions every minute of every 14 hour shift, took the time to cut the tape into little hearts to stick on those beautiful babies’ faces and make seeing the tubes and wires just a tiny bit less distressing for their parents.

I always do this. Hearts or Christmas trees. As they are the only shapes I can cut!

Nurses are amazing 😍

curiousitygotthebetterofme · 04/08/2022 23:46

Why is there no blood getting to his brain when there is blood circulating around the rest of his body/organs?

melona1980 · 04/08/2022 23:49

Why does she want to move him?

Like someone said upthread, he couldn't be moved for a scan as his mother was so worried. Why risk taking him to a hospice in such a fragile state? Assuming he can actually be moved, there will be so much equipment and a large number of medical professionals, his mother might not even be able to go in the ambulance.

Transporting patients in his state is risky. Even basic bed transfers can cause issues. There's also less room, less equipment, so much that go wrong.

I wonder if it's a delaying tactic, or just another attempt to lodge a legal barrier to stop the withdrawal of life support. Either way, it would be a very tragic ending if moving him ended up causing his death 'prematurely.'

XenoBitch · 04/08/2022 23:52

curiousitygotthebetterofme · 04/08/2022 23:46

Why is there no blood getting to his brain when there is blood circulating around the rest of his body/organs?

Also, is his head cold to the touch?

StClare101 · 04/08/2022 23:53

Eeksteek · 04/08/2022 22:57

It’s possible, I suppose. But I hypothesise that once the last nurse leaves the room, even leaving everything in situ, Archie will have seconds before his heart stops, even if no one does anything else. They aren’t just ‘looking after him’ they are actively working ON him, all the time. If someone any less skilled were to try to move him, he’ll arrest. He’s just too fragile, too unregulated without the team’s constant attention.

I know people think the ventilator just pushes air in and out, and that’s ICU. It’s nothing, nothing like that simple anyway, but in this case, it’s like a more like he’s actively in surgery. There’s a whole team basically being his body for him, all the time.

And they can’t just let Mum take him, in her naivety, knowing it comes to the same thing in the end and he won’t know. They HAVE to do what’s best for Archie, or they won’t be medical professionals anymore, at least in their own heads, and possibly by their registrant bodies. They are legally and morally bound by Archie’s best interests. It defines you. They probably already go home and question how to get out between this rock and hard place with their sanity, professionalism and humanity intact. Someone said up thread that swathes of staff just leave after a case like this. It’s too much to bear. I do feel for his mother, but her wilful ignorance of what is being done for her son is staggering. Understandable, but bordering on malice. Those poor, poor staff.

All of this. For a parent who professes she will do anything for her child, she might want to spend some time finding out exactly what care he is receiving. It is unforgivable that she is being so nasty about the medical professionals caring for Archie. She’s blaming everyone but herself. The aftermath will be awful.

dapsnotplimsolls · 04/08/2022 23:57

Guardian reporting that a ruling is expected on Friday morning.

SunflowerGardens · 05/08/2022 00:02

curiousitygotthebetterofme · 04/08/2022 23:46

Why is there no blood getting to his brain when there is blood circulating around the rest of his body/organs?

I think the coning prevents that but not really sure.

LouisRenault · 05/08/2022 00:03

Why is there no blood getting to his brain when there is blood circulating around the rest of his body/organs?

His brain is too damaged.

Guardian reporting that a ruling is expected on Friday morning.

Oh dear. I was hoping the decision had been made and a news blackout was in place until it was all over.

SunflowerGardens · 05/08/2022 00:04

melona1980 · 04/08/2022 23:49

Why does she want to move him?

Like someone said upthread, he couldn't be moved for a scan as his mother was so worried. Why risk taking him to a hospice in such a fragile state? Assuming he can actually be moved, there will be so much equipment and a large number of medical professionals, his mother might not even be able to go in the ambulance.

Transporting patients in his state is risky. Even basic bed transfers can cause issues. There's also less room, less equipment, so much that go wrong.

I wonder if it's a delaying tactic, or just another attempt to lodge a legal barrier to stop the withdrawal of life support. Either way, it would be a very tragic ending if moving him ended up causing his death 'prematurely.'

I wonder if the CLC are holding a gun to her head. Take every delay tactic possible or you're responsible for paying our fees?

SunflowerGardens · 05/08/2022 00:05

Hollie is posting on AA. Pictures of Archie when he was younger. Happier days Sad

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