Archie Battersbee thread 5

[henryhihat]

New thread...

To add , I do not think he should be moved or be kept going . I just didn't really get what too risky meant if he's already long gone

Jahi McMath

Actually Jahi McMath is slightly different in that she did actually retain some function. In fact isn’t she still alive? She was declared dead and then moved out of state, but she does actually respond to some words etc.

Won't repeat what everyone else has said.

His medical team are incredibly dedicated. The fact that he hasn't had cardiac death yet is a testement to how well they're looking after him. If it was in any way feasible to have him moved to a hospice for withdrawal, as his family wish, they would do it.

It's so ridiculous to be arguing that they're wrong when you a), aren't a pediatric intensivist, and b), haven't seen his medical notes nor been caring for him for the last three months.

Beyond anything else, I'm sure they would rather Hollie and the family were out the hospital - they don't want to force them to be there just as much as they don't want to be.

I hope what makes your blood boil is the mother making this claim. It is, of course, not true.

No, it is not an appeal. It is being heard in the High Court. If it was an appeal it would be in the Court of Appeal or the Supreme Court.

I wasn’t talking about pain. I made the point that the child in the study was kept on life support for 20 years, during the course of which he was moved several times from the hospital to the basement of the apartment building where he lived, which had been set up as a medical facility, and back to the hospital whenever he developed an infection.
His case was more or less identical to this one. So if he could be moved, why can’t this child?

@EYProvider

See my post above.

They are not "identical". Their cases are wildly different.

Archie was only given weeks to live, he is incredibly unstable, and the hospital have explained how simply turning him in his hospital bed is life threatening.

Why on earth would staff block a hospice move just for the sake of being difficult?

Her constant insults at the NHS and team caring for him, are loosing her support. The majority of people, ones who aren't stupid, can see how the medical team have tried and now as thanks, they get insulted time and time again.

No, Jahi died in 2018 following kidney and liver failure resulting in internal bleeding, so they withdrew life support.

Again, there are degrees of and variations in the degree of damage sustained, or of impairment resulting from similar damage. It’s likely one reason why MRIs are not acceptable as evidence of brain function and require great skill to interpret. Sometimes the visible damage doesn’t match the patient (I think there was a lady a couple of threads ago who’s poor father was in this position)

You can see how there are degrees in brain health, yes? How some people are good at maths (I’m hopeless!!) or good drivers or trip over their own feet? Well impairment is no different. It’s highly varied. And it’s one reason I don’t like the the term ‘brain dead’. It’s deeply unhelpful (as well as quite insulting). It’s never, never that simple.

Please give the medical profession the respect they have earned through blood, sweat and tears over their decades of training and experience. You simply can’t waltz in as a layman and say ‘case A is just like case Y’ without even having the test results, let alone the expertise to interpret them.

Cardiac arrest.

When we move our bodies restrict arteries and blood flow accordingly and increase or decrease our BP accordingly.

Archie's body cannot do this as the part of his brain that controls this isn't working.

So they are carefully managing every movement and watching monitors.

There is a very real risk that a journey via transport could cause cardiac arrest.

Whilst - of course - they is also the possibility it won't - under best interests there is no benefit to Archie or his care to take that risk.

Me dance disagrees because she believes it what Archie would want.

No, she died properly back in 2018.

I saw videos of her moving to commands too, but when I mentioned it on MN, people that know their stuff explained how it was not how the mother was making out.
Much like Hollie with the videos of Archie gripping her fingers.

They mean that he will arrest, with all the flashing and beeping monitors that entails, and that will be in a corridor, a lift, an ambulance with health care staff, not with his family.

The preferred option is that life support is withdrawn, leaving the venilator to last, removing or silencing monitors so that he has his last few heart beats as his body runs out of oxygen, with his family holding his hand or holding him, in his private room.

Pushing for him to be moved is pushing for a traumatic end for those around him and for his family.

If they move him he will likely cardiac arrest
So alarms going off, people all around him, maybe in the back of an ambulance, body fluids everywhere, family shouting to start CPR/trying to give mouth to mouth/saying they killed him
Family trying to get to him, chaotic scenes
And it's not for his best interests to be moved as well, he's already gone

When it could be in the private room at the hospital in controlled conditions
(Also there is more security at hospital for staff protection to witness and document every single thing)

I didn't say Jahi was the same as Archie. I simply said she was also brain dead and had been able to be moved.

I know everyone with whatever brain injury/death is different.

The hospital Archie is at have said he will die anyway in a matter of weeks. Jahi was obviously stable enough to last the years she did.

That Louis Theroux documentary doesn’t appear to be out there any more

@PeloAddict that's exactly what happened at my work. It was hideous.

Vasopressin is a potent vasopressor but it does have a small inotropic effect, too. Part of the consequence of diabetes insipidus is profound hypotension through volume depletion, so vasopressin will be responsible for maintaining blood pressure alongside the plasma-lyte infusion.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0403s1n/louis-therouxs-la-stories-2-edge-of-life
It seems to be working for me?

It’s sounds rather like that’s why we need best interest cases. The medical profession has come so far, both in advances and treating people as people.

I have a friend who has a severely disabled child who was on PICU for a long time. Like many babies, she had both oxygen and feeding tubes that had to be taped to her face. The nurses, those highly stressed and highly skilled people making life and death decisions and actions every minute of every 14 hour shift, took the time to cut the tape into little hearts to stick on those beautiful babies’ faces and make seeing the tubes and wires just a tiny bit less distressing for their parents.

That’s the kind of person we are talking about here.

Was it 'The Edge of Life' one?
I did have a look when it was mentioned.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0403s1n/louis-therouxs-la-stories-2-edge-of-life

One thing is clear, this cannot be allowed to happen again. It's truly shocking how this has dragged on because early on the parents refused to allow a brain stem test at the time it should have happened. People on social media have latched on to it like it's a real life soap opera. So much about this case has been abhorrent, and very hard to watch for those of us who have been in a similar situation.

I hope Archie passes peacefully and I wish his family well in the difficult times ahead. But this cannot keep happening.

Bloody Hell , I just watched the SkullCrusher Challenge , that is inhumane and an assault .
My DC are in their 20s , years ago my DD did the IceBucket Challenge (yeah daft) but it is innocent play compared to these

Perhaps a hospice has offered a private space for Archie and his family post hospital withdrawal? A fairly immediate transfer would give them all an element of privacy and they could then have time in a different environment to say their final goodbyes as a family.

Whatever is happening, I hope that Archie is finding his way to resting.

I very much doubt any hospice would be daft enough to offer to take on that circus