Archie Battersbee thread 5

[henryhihat]

New thread...

That’s the same child and is still not in any way similar to archie.

Hollie did a “run through” of his meds yesterday. It was glitchy for me but I didn’t note any inotropes.

He is on hydrocortisone but also thyroxine, the hydrocortisone will be needed for BP support but is likely because he has no pituitary function, with thyroid stimulation hormone and the hormone that stimulates cortisol production from the adrenal gland coming from the anterior pituitary. The diabetes insipidus is because he can’t make anti diuretic hormone (vasopressin) and is from the posterior pituitary.

It wasn’t identical at all. He didn’t have the catastrophic fluid losses that Archie has so wasn’t anywhere near as unstable.

The only similarities are that in this case when he developed diabetes insipidis (which is essentially what AB has already sue to pituitary gland not functioning - hence the vasopressin) that is when his life became unviable and he died. (Reply to EYP who you are responding too)

So their 'life' on ventilators were different.

Their end of life similar for the same reasons.

Now can you see why AB cannot be safely moved without considerable risk?

@EYProvider Again, without being rude, do you know anything at all about brains? Like what the different parts are and what they do? Or even about bodies and what they need to survive? Many people don’t, it’s no criticism, but please try to understand that people who know A LOT more about this than you (or I) are saying Archie can’t survive a move. That being in turned in bed is life threatening for him. There’s a reason ‘stable’ in ICU is good! Archie is about as far from stable as you can get.

It’s a bit unfair and frustrating that people who haven’t the any medical expertise, and no access to Archie’s medical records (I hope!) are able say that his condition is ‘absolutely the same’ as someone else’s. I worked in brain and spinal cord injuries for ten years. No injury was ‘absolutely the same’ as any other. None. It’s very plain that Archie is much more severely impaired than someone who survived 20 years with non-specialist antiquated (by comparison) medical care.

Yep, thats TK.

I am not an expert and have no medical qualifications but I found this online.

Does anyone recover from brain death?
Sadly, no one has ever recovered after being
declared brain dead.

What does brain death look like?
Brain dead patients look asleep, but they are not.

They do not hear or feel anything, including pain.

This is because the parts of the brain that feel,

sense, and respond to the world no longer work.

In addition, the brain can no longer tell the body
to breathe.

Because the brain cannot control breathing,

breathing must be done by a machine, called a

ventilator. As long as the ventilator is working,

the heart will keep beating.

So I am convinced that Archie does not feel anything at all.

I agree that there must be a media silence on this topic, and I hope that Hollie is able to process the whole situation and be able to spend time with Archie in total privacy.

His case was more or less identical to this one. So if he could be moved, why can’t this child?

My apologies for thinking you were talking about Tony Bland. I have now read the case report of the child you are referring to. Whilst there are similarities, I don’t believe the cases are “more or less identical”. One main difference is that there was blood flow to the brain (Archie does not have blood flow to his brain) and though herniation is speculated on there is no evidence this actually occurred (There is clear evidence that this has happened to Archie’s brain).
I have quoted the case report below.

”Although, by definition, brain death entails no internal carotid or vertebrobasilar artery blood flow, external carotid artery flow continued.”

It would also appear the child was in a more stable condition than Archie is currently in, in that his body was able to absorb nutrition (Archie’s can’t) and his thyroid function was normal for some time.

Additionally, what that child’s body was put through in the 80’s and 90’s was absolutely not in his best interests. They had to sew his eyelids partially shut to stop them drying out for goodness sake.

I can’t bring myself to read that TK article because it’s so bloody sick it’s disturbing and the parents are clearly vile creatures who IMO should have been charged with something.

But, how did his death come about after 20 years? Did they finally see the light and withdraw his life support? And if so, why?

That TK story is absolute nightmare fuel in the extreme. That poor person. That is beyond vile and exactly why parents should not be allowed to call the shots in situations like that.

Yes they decided a DNR was needed, after 20 years. Those monstrous people.

I mean, not that it matters, but I didn’t think he was on inotropes either.

She claims he is putting on weight

She doesn't understand the medication he is being given she said he is only on 5% of one medication so his brain is providing the other 95% it's literally not how it works I feel so sorry for her I feel she is being badly used

Bearing in mind as well that Archie is needing potassium infusions at least daily. These cannot be done in the community.

This is on LCB also on FB and Twitter but can’t work out how to link to it except www.lbc.co.uk

Archie Battersbee’s mum begs parents to use her son as a warning against 'online challenges'
4 August 2022, 17:22 | Updated: 4 August 2022, 17:55

That cas ein america is morbid their laws are so all over the place to let people lie dead practically on lf for 20 years is digusting im soglad this country wont allow that

From what i understand it's because he developed diabetes insipidus. Where the body can't control its fluid output. It doesn't do something with urine so it's not or is too concentrate (you can Google the condition)
That itself can cause heart failure and organ failure.

I agree with those who said that case would t have got through best interests in this day and age in the U.K. he wasn't ventilated for 20 years for his own benefit and he had no quality of life.

It’s possible she means they don’t care for Archie as a person. As in they don’t care if he dies (of course they do. It will have an enormous impact on their lives. Not so great as on hers, of course, but a great deal more than she realises)

Jahi McMath was also brain stem dead, and was kept on life support for 5years. She was moved several times.

I am confused as to what Archie's Mum wants. She says he should be given the chance to die "naturally" and this would mean going to a hospice. But presumably hospices provide palliative care, not mechanical life support.

I had every sympathy with this family until the doctors were, in effect, referred to as "executioners". It must be very upsetting for doctors and nurses to see this little boy on life support and to be portrayed as unfeeling people. I realise that this must be a terrible time for the parents and wider family but their reasoning seems muddled to me.

Again, she had some residual pituitary function though. Her body wasn’t as unstable. She began menstruating whilst being ventilated

Again, not the same as archie.

or this

www.facebook.com/LBC/

Again, not the same as the very traumatic injury and potentially long period without blood flow, Jahi experienced blood loss and cardiac arrest IN hospital, she was on life support very quickly.

Absolutely no idea if she had the same degree of brain death as Archie as I don't believe MRI's were taken of Jahi, brain stem death tests were carried out, it is likely that as she survived so much longer, she was far more stable than Archie is or ever will be.

I struggled with the doctors saying moving him would be too risky . Risky for what ?

Not every patient is the same. not every injury is the same.

I could say I had a broken arm.

that could be a clean break that will heal in a few months or complex multiple fractures that would take a lot longer to heal and could result in amputation. Both are still a broken arm, and both treatment, and long-term result is different.
unless you have Archies and Jahis medical notes to read you can't say they are the same.