Archie Battersbee - Thread 3

[BongoJim]

Follow on from previous full thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/4596573-archie-battersebee-case-thread-2?page=1

Which is the point of moving him to a hospice if they will anyway remove the treatment?

Presumably they believe it will be a nicer environment to say their goodbyes and also away from the ill feeling they probably hold towards the hospital.

In all fairness it might actually (if possible) be better for the hospital staff not to withdraw treatment and let hospice staff do this given the breakdown in the relationship between the parents.

What appeal will they lodge next

ECHR
An application for Archie to be moved
A demand for a further stay because Hollie's "too ill to attend the withdrawal"

Take your pick

I don't think he would survive the journey to a hospice. Surely they don't want him to pass in an ambulance, even if he made it that far...

Sorry, I forgot the fourth one:

Another movement on Archie's part which "proves" he's alive but which only Hollie has observed, together with a demand for a fresh process based on "new evidence"

The family are now talking about moving him for his last days.

Surely once treatment is stopped he will pass away much more quickly than that? He can’t breathe for himself

I can't see the moral issue with moving him to a hospice. There may be practical issues (space, media presence etc) but not a moral one. Clearly the relationship with the hospital has broken down.

At least if HD gets this wish, she'll have won something and I think that seems to be very important to her right now. At the end of the day, this a mother watching her son pass away, and I think any kindness that can be offered ought to be, even if she hasn't been rational or kind to the medical staff. She may well regret that later, but right now, I can't imagine what she's going through at the prospect of the next few hours and days.

Peacefulness all round is what's needed now.

I can see why she wants Archie to be moved to a hospice but wouldn’t moving him kill him anyway?

I don’t think he’ll survive the move - he’s had issues with his BP when he’s ‘simply’ being washed/turned etc.

transferring him to travel equipment, physically being moved to and from replies, jolted and swaying about in an ambulance, then the transfer back to a bed and connection to other equipment…nope can’t see him surviving that at all. He’ll die in transit. And how is that ‘the best thing’ for him (or the family, who presumably wouldn’t be with him but following in a car behind).

Ella said on an interview that they'd looked at a Hospice which was "nice"
But seriously , which Hospice would take this whole shit show travelling circus ?
They don't have the security that a hospital would have

They have vunerable patients/clients , the last thing they need is Archies Army and The Press turning up
And yes, he'd get as far as the lift door then would be extremely compromised .

The Hospital can make his room quiet and private . I'm sure there is an unwritten code like If this light above the door is on it means a family are saying the last farewell to their precious child , please show respect

The family are now talking about moving him for his last days

No doubt, but talking doesn't equate to making any formal request - at least not yet

It seems that Barts said the withdrawal would go ahead today unless a court order was issued to prevent it, and with the Supreme Court's refusal there obviously isn't one as things stand
So is there any good reason why the hospital (who do after all work 24/7) can't now proceed?

Exactly that, what hospice would want to be involved?

I mean even at my vets they have a candle, and a sign that if the candle is lit to be silent as it means someone is saying goodbye to their pet

And I also can’t see a hospice willing to take him when it’s not at all certain that the family will actually allow the extubation when it comes to it - they are constantly contradicting themselves - could just end up being same shit different location - also, Ella has said in an interview that there are 8 security guards outside his room - hospices have other dying patients and families to consider as well.

it has to be in his best interests to move him not just to appease his mother.

I wonder if Hospice staff could go to the hospital instead and at least assist at the end to help the family, given the breakdown in the relationship between the family and the hospital staff.

The judge in this latest statement said that ANY further delay, even a day, was against his best interests - surely that means even a delay to negotiate moving him, let alone actually moving him, which would take a couple of days I would have thought.

They can't move him because they'd have to transfer care over to a new party and that could be appealed all over again. However it's not In his best interests to be moved because he could die en route to the hospice and his mum will probably bring Murder charges against the hospital like AE dad did.

He can't and probably won't be moved

There is a childrens hospice in East London but the staff wouldn't need to go to his bedside, the hospital will have their own palliative care team and he could be moved away from the main ITU into a side room if he is able to tolerate that and a room is available. If he was moved to the hospice I imagine a doctor, nurse and anaethetist would need to travel with him,.

I thought he was already in a side room?

@BlanketsBanned probably more like the consultant of the icu, 1 anaesthetists 3/4 nurses because of any interventions required in the way there

No idea, I dont work there. If he ie then that gives his family and the rest of the patients a bit of privacy.

So now what?

I’m pretty sure he’s medically too unstable to be moved. There’s a window of transfer to a hospice and I think he’s sadly well past that.

I really hope SOMEONE Hollie trusts can get in front of her now and say enough. It’s time to hold him and let him go.

@GirlInACountrySong the family will ask for him to be moved; the hospital doesn't need to comply. They could say let's do it tomorrow to give hjs family chance to say goodbye but the judgement makes reference to every day he's being given life sustaining treatment is another day against his best interests so it could be withdrawn tonight

I doubt he would survive being moved. And they also need a hospice to agree to have him and all the equipment he needs. Was this not an issue with Charlie Gard?

No authorities, other than the UN CRPD, have shown any compassion or understanding to us as a family.We will fight until the end.”

Can they go any further or is that it? She's just done a interview and said they will explore options but other then the hospice is there any?