Archie Battersbee - Thread 3

[BongoJim]

Follow on from previous full thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/4596573-archie-battersebee-case-thread-2?page=1

It all seems to be going round and round and round in circles now..know parents have the right to appeal and can feel done all they can...but someone has to make a final decision either way surely

A parents refused very early on. Now they can't be donated as they won't be viable

Thank you

Had there been any mention of donating his organs? Is it even possible in his case?

Though not a medic I'd be absolutely amazed if it was

It sounds callous, but a consultant once explained to me that the "ideal" donor is a young adult in full health who'd just been in a fatal accident but hung on until they reached hospital - hardly the same as a patient who's been effectively dead for months

Court will give decision at 3pm. I expect parents will try to appeal to Supreme Court. I don’t think any treatment will be withdrawn today. IMO treatment should be withdrawn with immediate effect. This circus cannot be allowed to continue any longer.

Every time there’s an appeal, and every time they rule against, and then there’s another one.

This is never going to end unless someone puts their foot down and ends it.

I don't think this is correct. Judges regularly have to get their heads around all sorts of very abstruse areas of knowledge, whether it's in medicine, or engineering, or IT, or construction, or accounting practice, or aeronautics or, well, anything. They deal with medical issues particularly frequently in various different areas of the law. If medics can't explain medical concepts adequately so judges can understand them, how can they expect lay people to?

I don't think the issue here is that the judges were reluctant to say that, in lay people's terms, that Archie is dead. If anything, the reluctance lay with the medics, and for good reason: they have a clearly laid down protocol for testing brain stem death which is fine for 99.999% of cases, it's simply that in this one case it wasn't because Archie had deteriorated too far. So they were unable to tell the courts that he was brain stem dead, and the courts understandably said they weren't going to override the medics on that one.

This is the letter the hospital gave her. They obviously know there's no reasoning with her and it's the best way to communicate. They really do need to end this circus now. I'm sure Archie wouldn't want it to continue looking at the life he had before. Sadly it would have been better if he hadn't been resuscitated that day.

The second part of the letter.

At this rate, his body is just going to give up itself whilst the never-ending appeals are ongoing.

In fact the court should order that treatment be withdrawn immediately.

They’ve had time to prepare. They were told at the weekend that treatment would be withdrawn. If they can’t be there because they’re too busy chasing this and that hopeless appeal then so be it.

I know this sounds unsympathetic but this is ridiculous. And this organisation cannot be allowed to win. Which they will have if they continue to prevent the withdrawal of life support.

Is that letter posted on social media, poor little Archie, why would you post that, what about his privacy and dignity. .

I agree, and I think the court is alive to this. I doubt the Supreme Court will give permission and I think that decision will be made quickly. The court of appeal can’t stop them trying though. By the time all this has happened, I doubt the court will send Hollie straight to the hospital for treatment to be withdrawn, I think they’ll give a short further period for her to be with him. And I really hope, for Archie’s sake as much as anything else, she is with him when the time comes.

No they can be refused the right to appeal.

Seems to be no updates in mainstream news. Where are the snippets about 3.30pm coming from?

It sounds callous, but a consultant once explained to me that the "ideal" donor is a young adult in full health who'd just been in a fatal accident but hung on until they reached hospital - hardly the same as a patient who's been effectively dead for months

Which is what Archie was on admission - young , fit , gymnast /MMA fighter and being told her son wouldn't last 24 hours , this was probably her immediate fear . If they take his organs there is no going back .

Yeah the tabloids at least are usually all over this one and this time they’re not.

Wonder if it’s just something someone has made up. I hope so, and that mainstream news reports at 2:30 that life support has been withdrawn.

Does anyone have links/info to these "vent farms" I keep hearing about in the USA?

I really hope there is not a scene at Archie's bedside when the machines are turned off. And I still think that should happen today.

This would be very sad and even more distressing for his family. I hope, whatever happens, they are able to be with him and cuddle him and try to find some peace in these tragic circumstances.

Joshua Rozenberg has been live tweeting.

twitter.com/JoshuaRozenberg/status/1554081311320571904?cxt=HHwWgICwlYCumpErAAAA

Archie Battersbee hearing adjourned until 3pm. Court hopes to give its reasoned judgment then, or shortly afterwards. Question for decision is how long to extend the “stay” on termination Archie’s life support.

Apparently she's going to be on TalkTV radio this evening with Jeremy Kyle

This HAS to be MADE UP SHITE , surely ??

(Though I do wonder how Mr K would lead this interview )

oh, the man who was taken off air after someone ended their own life because of him talking to a mother whose child likely ended his own life…? It’s bloody sick.

And tbh it’s stuff like this which makes it hard to be sympathetic.

He's had blood transfusions so his organs won't be viable. So that's that theory out.

For clarity, the courts aren't interested in whether the resources spent on Archie would be better spent on others. The only question is whether continued treatment is in his best interests. The court decided that treatment was futile, that it compromised his dignity, deprived him of autonomy and served only to protract his death whilst being unable to prolong his life. On the evidence, this is an unsurprising conclusion.

I'm not an expert in international law, but I believe talk of a UN injunction is wrong. The existence of an injunction has been widely reported in the press, but this seems to come from the mother and the CLC. The wording of the letter from the UN CRPD committee seems to me abundantly clear that it is a request to continue Archie's treatment. The letter says, "Under article 4 of the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities and pursuant to rule 64 of the Committee’s Rules of Procedure, the Committee, acting through its Special Rapporteur on Communications, has requested the State party to refrain from withdrawing life-preserving medical treatment, including mechanical ventilation and artificial nutrition and hydration, from the alleged victim while the case is under consideration by the Committee; this request does not imply that any decision has been reached on the substance of the matter under consideration." A request is not an injunction.

This is so sad. A vulnerable child with a vulnerable mother being exploited by - actually I don't think I can say without being deleted.

I hope Archie is at peace soon.

they have the right to ask the court of appeal and if the court of appeal says no, they can approach the Supreme Court. You get two bites at the cherry with appeals.