Archie Battersebee case-thread 2

[whynotwhatknot]

ongoing from previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4573803-archie-battersbee-case?page=40

Why, in these cases, does the court allow reporting?

Obviously I can't speak for the court, but since it appears there was never any chance of the family choosing to keep this private, perhaps it was thought that publicising the judgements was the wisest option?

Given the dreadful allegations made against medical staff, I can't help thinking it may have been the better choice in the end - and at least on here posters have mostly centred on Archie's interests and bent backwards to empathise with Hollie, however ill advised they feel her actions have been. The only real criticism has been for the detestable "Army", and I believe that's justified

A heartbreaking situation. I feel so much for that mother, a friend of mine lost her son in tragic circumstances about the same age, there are no words to explain the impact.

As to why he did it, I would have thought the police would have gone through his computer and 'phone. After his death I suppose they will because of the need for an inquest.

Yes, there will be be a post mortem and then there will be an inquest.

Then the NHS medical staff can all be accused of murder again no doubt.

That's what I want to know. Are you saying that is life support has been withdrawn and that's he's legally dead?

There is extensive evidence online, including records from the family social media going back years, that sheds a huge amount of light on exactly why he chose to do this.

@BreadInCaptivity People do all sorts of things when they are emotionally distraught. It doesn't mean social media has to jump on their bandwagon and do the same.

WiddlinDiddlin · Today 15:09
“I used the word corpse.

I was pretty angry when I wrote that, a close friend of mine is at home, feeling very ill because she needs what for her are fairly routine blood transfusions and there is a shortage of blood products.

Meanwhile, however sad it is, a dead person is getting blood products daily.

If that wouldn't make YOU feel angry, I dunno what to say, my friend has a reasonable chance of living another 40+ years, if she gets the treatment she needs.

Archie and other cases like him, fortunately there aren't many, has NO chance of living .. ever.“

@WiddlinDiddlin i completely understand your use of vocabulary and I hope your friend gets the help she needs

I'm a Christian (believe that people are only saved by their faith in Jesus). I believe that Archie is, sadly, dead and has been for some time. His physical body has no bearing on his soul.

Of course they do.

However, being distraught is no defence to making untrue (and dangerous) allegations.

It's clear of you look at the comments section in the Mail for example, how many people have swallowed Hollie's narrative and have no understanding of the seriousness of Archie's condition.

That brings both the medical profession and the courts into disrepute because a significant number of people believe they are not acting in Archie's best interests.

That narrative needs to be challenged.

Like anyone I'm truly saddened by what this family is going on though, however there is a bigger picture to consider here besides the fate of one child and his family and that is something that invites respectful discussion.

The Glasgow Coma Scale (GCS) just tells you how deeply comatose a patient is. If you were given a hefty dose of anaesthetic, your GCS would be 3/15. However, fixed and dilated pupils are, in most cases, a catastrophic sign and rarely reversible, and pupillary reaction is also recorded on a GCS/neurological observation form.

It's absolutely vital that the reporting of this case is allowed. It's a basic tenent of our system that cases are public. That's why we always have a public gallery. (only closed when a sex abuse survivor testifying) Justice (whether criminal cases or civil cases) must be SEEN to be done.

Poor Archie has indeed been dead for months. Blood and oxygen are being pumped around his (dead) body but he has already gone. He went when his brain stem died. There will be no miracles here unless he is, in fact, Jesus or Lazarus I'm afraid.

We need to stop the talk about "letting him go" or him being "effectively" dead. Or talking about what is "kindest" for him or in his "best interests". He doesn't have any best interests anymore, he is gone.

In many ways, the death certificate should have on it as the date of death the date he hanged himself. (It won't tho).

I sympathise with this family and am glad we have the safely net of a court system but enough now of this.

It's ridiculous
She's been saying it's euthanasia again, but it's not because he is already dead so I don't know if she's not accepting that because she's accepted he won't recover. Which doesn't make any sense
And damn right euthanasia should be legal then we wouldn't have to keep people alive at all costs (family history of dementia, it makes me cross)

Is there?

nobody can answer why someone of only just 12 would do this

I made the mistake of googling and if any of what I have read is even vaguely true then I'm amazed that this has gone on for as long as it has. I know things can be faked on social media but if that's the case someone must have a huge grudge to be posting what is out there claiming to be Hollie. I'm appalled. He should be allowed to have dignity now. No god would allow this to happen in the first place and then let it go on fit so long through the courts so I don't understand how anyone can cite god in this.

I have looked online, and there is no evidence there to suggest why this might have happened. As people say that there was, I’m guessing that it’s been removed.

That being said, there isn’t always a discernible reason why someone might decide to end their own life. Often only they know the torment they are going through. It’s not uncommon for a suicide to come as a complete shock to a family who had no idea.

I don't understand how anyone can cite god in this

It's worth remembering that the legal case is being supported by a self-proclaimed christian organisation, who as PPs have said have a major agenda, so maybe it's not surprising that the family choose to emphasise their alleged christian faith

There was a case like this some years ago in the U.S. Jahi McMath died after having her tonsils removed. According to her mother, Jahi asked for an ice lolly in the recovery room and then suffered a massive blood loss. I recall reports at the time the family had been feeding her hamburgers or something similar.

Her mother insisted on keeping her on life support and said she was just 'sleeping'.

I remember medical reports stating her body decomposing and the hospital staff being upset caring for her body. Her mother would do her daughter's body nails hair, make-up and claimed she was menstruating. She had the idea if the body was warm and the heart beating, then the body was still alive.

It was all very gruesome.

Long story short; they the body off of life support 5 years after she died.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahi_McMath_case

The comments on Christian concerns FB page are batshit. Someone wants to raise funds to buy a life support machine and put it in Archies home , and hire nurses to care for him

5 years! Jesus Christ.

Mind you in the states I’m assuming that someone was paying for it? Not that that makes it any less palatable, but ykwim.

@NameChangeLifeChange look for the Hollie Dance kiwi farms thread.

I have a 12 year old and if this happened to him I am very very sure he would not want pictures of him in a nappy on social media.

I’m not sure how I feel about this being played out in the public domain and the photographs and descriptions of Archie’s condition in the press make me very uncomfortable. Having said that I agree that court hearings in general and in particular decisions to withdraw treatment from a child should be transparent and open to scrutiny so I’m not sure there was an alternative in this case particularly when the details were already made public by Archie’s parents.

As an aside I’ve noticed an increasing trend of making it more difficult for the public to go into courts in the last few years . I’m a solicitor so operate on a far lower level than the High Court but we’ve encountered real resistance amongst court and security staff to letting people into the public gallery or even the court building. Covid or security are cited as the issue but it’s completely changed the dynamic of a court as a public place where anyone has a right to be. My experience is that you need to justify why you are there and it’s very unwelcoming. This is not a good thing.

If there actually is a God, then he would hopefully bring about a cardiac arrest so that this shitshow can end.

I'm a Christian and I agree with pp.
The fact that blood and oxygen are going round Archie's earthly body does not negate the fact that his soul has gone to the afterlife.

@Brushteethwashface I'm a solicitor too in fact. I don't agree with the parents being allowed to post photos. Not for Archie's sake as he is past caring. But because, in general in this country we have respect for people and their bodies, whether alive or dead. I think the descriptions are ok because we can't meaningfully discuss the case otherwise.