Rishi & Truss - Will colour play a part?

[Raul57]

FYI, I'm Indian. My parent came to the UK in the early 60's.
Like everyone we know none of us has ever lived in social housing or been unlucky enough to claim benefits. We were taught by our parents like most parents to respect our elders, respect authority, EG teachers and police and work hard, get married, buy your own house and never borrow money other than for a mortgage and or a business, basically don't try to run before you an run.

Our parent's teachings have left us and our children in a good position and we all own our own property and most of us have BTL's. Most of my family work as professionals in the health and legal sector and recent 20 years IT sectors.

We have always been taught to be fair and treat all with respect especially if they treat us with respect regardless of their stauts/wealth/religion/colour/culture/etc/etc

TBH, I don't often vote as I don;t trust any politician but we do need them
I liked Boris, but the lie after lie and party gate made me dislike Boris & the nodding dogs that kept him in office and still do for almost another 2 months.

We have savings and a BTL. We've left work early and like most in or out of work and not super rich the inflation, staggering inflation is impacting us but I am aware it is hitting the poorest the hardest.

Rishi IMO would make a better leader than Truss but both of them and the other 8 candidates are not up to the job and especially Liz Truss. Liz lacks diplomatic skills and the ability to look and sound like a leader of our great nation. For that reason, I'd chose Rushi out of a poor bunch.

I want tax cuts but you do not need to be a rocket scientist to know it will fuel inflation to new highs and erode our living standards even further.

Worst still, Liz Truss nearly got us into big trouble with her mouth and Putin. I am having nightmares about Liz Truss in number 10 with finger on the nuclear button.

Rishi resigned as do 40+ others. Ben wallce stated sensibly his case to stay but Truss did not. However, Truss then climed she did not leave becuse she owned it to the UK but she never said that before she was recently on TV so I don't trust her one bit

I despise Boris and was glad to see him go but out of the two above especially Truss , I'd have Boris back.

Come the part members voting I fear colour may play a part in it for some as in any group.

FYI, I've been to Indian several times and yes, like every other country I've been to there is racism there as well.

The bottom line, I'd vote in a donkey into number 10 if I felt the donkey would do a good job. We needed a change a new Tory that was not in government but sadly Truss will turn the UK into a cesspit or worse get us into WW3.

Rishi is sleek but he was part of Boris

Ideally, right now, I'd have Boris back, never thought I'd be saying that.

Re inflation cutting taxes is not the way forward but building on what we have is.

You want a sportsman bet on that?

The bookies are not thick, hence Truss is a massive favourite as was Penny if she was to be one of the two - what does that tell us?

Well, I think Johnson was an abomination, so you lost me a bit at the point you said you liked him...I clearly don't agree with your judgement. I don't think Truss or Sunak will be much better, but I do think that Sunak is the best of a bad bunch.

Do I think that race will potentially play a part in the choices that people make? Sadly, yes, I think it will. The Tory party membership are not representative of the population as a whole, there is a disproportionate number of old white men - amongst that demographic, there will certainly be an element of racism, but there will also be an element of misogyny too, so perhaps they will cancel each other out to some extent. Class will also play a part, and Rishi's background/private education will also help him in that respect. A working class black or Asian woman wouldn't stand a chance, no matter how good they were.

Ultimately, though, I think Rishi will lose out less because of his race and more because he is being honest about the fact that we can't afford tax cuts right now. It just isn't what the Tory party want to hear, and as we know from the whole Brexit debacle, they aren't usually inclined to let inconvenient truths get in the way of whatever right wing nonsense they are trying to promote. So the nation will be lumbered with Truss and she will wreak further havoc on the country.

The only silver lining to all of this is that the Tories will probably end up making themselves unelectable for a generation, and then we might finally get done grown-ups in charge!

Colour isn't the reason I won't be using my membership vote on Sunak, as would happily have given my vote to Javid, if he'd got through.

It's his lying snake ways and his avoidance of tax whilst he swims around in his billions, whilst the every day person chooses between electric and food, as we all get rinsed dry in tax increases.
People seem to very quickly forget that Sunak was at the forefront of the government, managing the countries finances, when it all went tits up due to his poor management and lack of understanding of the financial dire straits normal people were in He's shown what he is and that is why he's lost my vote.

Oh, I don't think anyone has forgotten how bad Rishi is. It's just that the prospect of Liz Truss is even worse.

I don't mind if she wins, though. It virtually guarantees that the Tories will get slaughtered at the next election.

That the minority, don't actually consider what's best for the country as a whole, instead it could be argued that they hold their own personal perspectives as more important.

Or majority, depending on people's perspectives

If he wins, people will say it's sexism.
If she wins, people will say it's racism.

The heads of so many Tories must be imploding right now at the prospect.

If he wins, people will say it's sexism

The one positive (imo) about the tories is that they are happy to elect women leaders.

@Raul57 Fair enough, sorry if I misunderstood. I’m of Indian heritage myself and just didn’t want to think fellow Indians should have to feel apologetic about rooting for an Indian PM, nor about being critical of other aspects of the UK.

I'm really sorry I've upset you @TullyApplebottom

Maybe you could report the original comment to MN and see if they'll redact it to avoid it upsetting anyone else?

Again, my apologies to those I have offended.

I think Truss will beat Sunak to the post because a significant minority of the largely elderly conservatives who have the power to vote them ARE racist. The wider voting public are largely less racist but we don’t have a say.

Both are terrible choices to lead us through what will be a monumentally shit few years. Tax cuts are shortsighted and display a lack of vision or long term planning.

I disagree with you.

You're absolutely right that there is a significant number of racists amongst the Tory membership, and fwiw, I think there are quite a lot in the wider electorate too. Sadly, I'm sure that there are plenty of Tory members and others who would prefer not to have a PM of South Asian heritage.

I don't think that's why Rishi will lose, though. I honestly think it boils down to the issue of tax cuts. So many Tories have a pathological aversion to paying taxes, they see tax cuts as the ultimate Holy Grail, even when it is patently obvious that they are not going to resolve any of the economic problems that we're facing. If Rishi was promising to cut tax while Liz Truss was saying that we couldn't afford to do that, I reckon that the vast majority of racist Tories would hold their noses and vote for them anyway. They're that simple.

@buzzheath
Thanks for the post. I understand.

I agree with most of your posts. The way you posted makes it sound as though all of the group could be racist something I strongly disagree with and I guess you did not mean that.

I honestly fear Truss in number 10.

I'm not sure what you are on about but will say that we can all type something mean something but it is misunderstood, misread, comes across not as intended etc etc - please do not worry.

I hardly vote but we were labout voters and since Tony Blair and the WMD, never again. Importantly, the Labour party is not as diverse. However, I am guessing that we have Indians/Pakistanis/Asain on the Tory front benches as many came to the UK to better themselves in the 50/60/70's etc and aspire to be educated and do well hence leading to the Tory party rather than the champagne
communists.

I want to be very very rich its not going to happen as I don't do the lottery etc but we are comfortable and run a GLS and a Porsche Macan all purchased for cash. Our children are on their way to be multi-millionaires, great but we have taught them like our parents did our roots, working class and treat people with respect. A family member of mine is rich worth at least 10 mill - they lack manners, very loud and I refuse to go to their house but many people we know by sight via mutually weddings, parties etc want to be their best friends because they are rich

If Truss had Rishi's brains then I'd support her but she does not and what she has is something that the UK needs to avoid at all costs.

People who have an issue with the colour of Sunaks skin will likely also have a problem with Truss being a woman. So all in all, it probably won’t make a huge difference, racism and sexism often go hand in hand.

I think Sunak did a good job during the pandemic. I realise he sounded tone deaf on the cost of living crisis but I'm not sure that it's as easy to solve as the other candidates make out. We have a massive national be t and hoke in public finances reducing income tax will mean reduced funding for public services unless they mean to increase debt even further saddling future generations for years with low public finances and a massive tax burden.

I’m not sure I understand your point about all the group being racist but anyway. For what it’s worth Sunak does come across as more competent than Truss. But they both supported liar Johnson. And that Sunak’s budget in response to the energy price hikes was initially ill judged.

I disagree.
There were polls re

Rishi Vs Truss &
Rishi Vs Penny

Outcomes of the polls from Tory supports were similar from memory, eG

Rishi about 40% the ladies around 60%

I worked in social services and started working front line visiting people just over 30 years go about 35 yrs ago - the older people ie 70+ the terms, the words they used to describe black, and asain people were not right. Worst still when challenged they responded, "I mean no offence luv." Staggering but a fact. The older groups of ordinary people are less racist these days and less of them

to be clear you get racists from all backgrounds as well as very decent people

About the support for Johnson.

Rishi resigned and was party to his downfall.

Truss on the other hand backed Boris even after he said he would go. Then on the tv debate between the candidates about a week ago she blurted out when Rishi said he resigned when he had enough, she said, she stayed on as her job was important. Therefore if Rishi, Javid and the others stayed on, Boris would have still been leading after Sept.

Truss makes it up as she goes along. If you don't believe me, look it up - did Truss tell Boris to go before he said he would, no she did not. This does not matter to to as they are all the same say anything to get in what worries me is Truss will turn the UK into a cesspit or worst get us nuked.

Personally it's a pity that we couldn't read the intelligence services files on the candidates and political parties, then vote based on their perspectives.

I can't tell if you are a Conservative Party member or not. If you are, you can sign a petiton to have Johnson included on the ballot along with Sunak and Truss here: https://conservativepost.co.uk/borisballot/

If not, you have absolutely no direct say in who becomes the next Conservative Party leader, and therefore the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. So you come on here and try to make your case, why? To convince others that might have a vote? Honestly, it's not convincing at all.

I get that you don't want Truss. But you also don't want Sunak or Johnson. I would ask you to make a positive case for Sunak or Johnson, but you can't. So you want to make a negative case against Truss, but you also don't do that convincingly.

Rishi IMO would make a better leader than Truss but both of them and the other 8 candidates are not up to the job and especially Liz Truss. Liz lacks diplomatic skills and the ability to look and sound like a leader of our great nation. For that reason, I'd chose Rushi out of a poor bunch. There are not ten candidates, there are two. You've said which one you prefer, but have not given any reasons to persuade someone to your view.

Worst still, Liz Truss nearly got us into big trouble with her mouth and Putin. Putin exists and is orchestrating devestating war crimes in Ukraine and frankly I'm happy the UK government is saying so, because apart from Ukraine itself and the Visegrad 4 (who've been saying so since Feb 2014; don't think I'm letting the UK or EU off the hook) hardly anyone else is. But your better-than-the-other-options "Boris" did the same. I am having nightmares about Liz Truss in number 10 with finger on the nuclear button. And yet, you are not worried about where Putin's fingers are, but wish to appease him? OK.

... sadly Truss will turn the UK into a cesspit or worse get us into WW3. I understand your WW3 reference, see my comments on appeasement above. But "turn the UK into a cesspit or worse"? How? On what basis do your claim this? What evidence?

The woman was let out because the Americans ok'd the swap. Therefore, even a donkey could have been in office and got the lady released once the Yanks ok's the swap/s. Do you know anything at all about Iran? Or Iran-USA relations? I'm not saying the release was a huge victory for Truss but yeah, it did require diplomacy; Iran could and would very easily have said no and backed out.

I despised Boris johnsons behaviour re partygate and other lies but if I was given Hobson's choice between Rishi, Truss and Boris, incredibly I'd vote Boris back in as that is how awfully dangerous Truss is. I told you above how to do this IF you have a vote, but while we're on the subject: "dangerous" in what way?

Truss will turn the UK into a dump or worse. As you said above, and so as I asked you - in what way, specifically? How?

The UK does not need a Buffon a dangerous one talking for the UK and her presentation or lack of it a better word and lack o charisma is not for me or the UK. What do you mean?

TBH as I said before, I'd vote in a donkey into number 10 rather than Liz Truss - out of the two Rishi easiy beats Truss and though I'm happy Boris was going and now seeing this I'd have Boris back, better still a donkey could do a better job. Do you have any evidence for this superficially very unlikely claim? (Not a rhetorical question; I mean please post your evidence, with links to primary sources).

Apologies if I've missed any of your salient points; after some time I just started searching for "donkeys" and I've replied to the last donkey-related comment from you that I found. Please clue me in if there was something substantive that I missed, but I think you've got nothing. I'll agree with you that racism will be a factor for some (and so will sexism, obviously!) but that's about the only thing I've found in your posts here that makes any sense.

Because of racism

What’s worse in the electorate’s mind, a brown man or a white woman?

I like that succ it summary, @LynneBenfield

You keep referring to the fact that you'd vote in a donkey if you felt they'd do the right thing, but you also say that you don't normally vote?

So which is it?