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Ukraine.. Ignorance

132 replies

Iwonder08 · 27/02/2022 08:29

There are about 300 threads on MN now about Ukraine. A lot of very opinionated people who probably wouldn't be able to point Ukraine on the map and never ever had any interest in the region. There is zero knowledge of the internal violent conflicts in the country, but a lot of messages about 'hero president' or even worse threads to United Kingdom.
I hate Putin passionately as he impacted the life of some people who are dear to me. The conflict will have much worse long term impact on Russia itself rather than Ukraine and he doesn't give a shit.
I respect people's opinions as long as they are educated.
Putin is quite obviously in the wrong as he is breaking the international law and there is no excuse for that, but the overall situation is triggered by US involvement in Ukrainian internal politics as much as Russian interference. There must be consequences for Putin, but also acknowledgment of the impact of US foreign politics in the current conflict.
As usual, simple civilians on both sides will be the victims.

OP posts:
Octomore · 01/03/2022 19:05

@MongoOnlyPawnInGameOfLife

Most people only seem to be able to operate in black and white. It's much easier after all and requires far less effort, plus it's a more simple sell for the newspapers and governments.

It is not a question of US\West = Good, Russia = Bad, more that the US is awful but Russia is worse. You only have to look at the hundreds of thousands of people who have died in US backed wars and conflicts as they come in on the side of some of the worst dictators in history just as long as that dictator keeps their country open for US\Western businesses to exploit.

Nicaragua, Guatamela, Indonesia, El Salvador, Iraq, Libya, Iraq again - they only step in and change course when the dictator starts to veer too far off course, not usually in human rights terms but ones that affect American\Western businesses.

We are kidding ourselves if we think we are the 'good guys' - we are just the least bad alternative. For all the claims about Russian propganda, its clear that the US is far better at manipulating popular opinion in its favour over the long term.

This is actually one of the few conflicts where we can legitimately claim to hold the moral high ground. Putin may not like Nato expansion, but he really has no valid fear that somehow Nato is going to attack Russia. He just hates Russia's decreasing influence in world politics as its role passes to China - a fairly piss poor reason to invade Ukraine.

I agree
Gowithme · 01/03/2022 20:54

Ah I was trying to find out what all the talk of neo nazis in Ukraine by Putin was about - perhaps most people are already aware of Azov as it has been mentioned nearer the beginning of the thread but I didn't realise.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

Frazzled50yrold · 01/03/2022 23:07

I'm listening to a very informative programme on radio4,Ukraine, how we got here. 30 minutes long and very insightful.

CurrerBell1979 · 02/03/2022 00:12

are you reffering to Trump trying to trying to extort Ukraine and withholding aid from the? part of his first impeachment.

reportedly to dig up shit on Biden

Then why not just say that and let people discuss that and read about it, we cant remember every shit that has happened over the last years, there has been so much going on

Trump was also awfully cozy to Putin, calling him a genius etc

Chloemol · 02/03/2022 02:23

So you start another thread

There is a very good thread, now at part 5, that is not full of threads from ‘ opinionated uneducated people’

Your post is extremely rude in tone, and you sound awful

valerianaofficiana · 02/03/2022 07:40

A thread full of uneducated opinions, unsubstantiated factoids and gross simplification of a very complex geopolitical situation.
NATO is a defensive military alliance, it will not attack. It exists to defend its members, hence it will not get involved in Ukraine.
NATOs expansion is good for the lasting peace in the world, imagine the small European countries being picked out by Russia, Europe would never be peaceful without NATO.
Ukraine does not meet the requirements to join NATO, to join EU, it must get rid of the corruption and sort out the economy. That is well and truly scuppered now, sadly. EU has accepted Ukraine's application in solidarity but it will be years before it actually is ready to join.
What Russia is doing is criminal.
The ethnic Russians in former USSR were relocated there by Stalin during/after WWII, to replace the local populace occupying Russians either killed or sent to Gulags.
Putin could invite all the ethnic Russians to go and settle in Mother Russia instead trying to forcefully take parts of independent democratic states where ethnic Russians live.
US is not to be blamed for the current tragedy.

allmixedup12 · 08/03/2022 00:34

@MissConductUS

joined responsibility of US in the current situation.

Because they support the democratically elected government of Ukraine?

If Ukraine wants to leave the Russian sphere of influence should we oppose that and tell them that have no choice in the matter and must remain a vassal state of Russia?

democratically elected? not so sure

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26079957

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