Fran Lyon has left the country

[milliec]

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edam, thanks i didn't.

fran, am very glad you feel in a safer place.

this whole story has been one that in the main (after a first foray which managed to offend a whole load of people that I think an awful lot of on MN) I've tried to stay away from.

I think that is it wrong to speculate based on one side, and that if social services are bound by confidentiality then it makes no difference if you've said they could disclose Fran, they won't as it is their policy not to.

I think that you agree that it is unfortunate that the social services have been vilified both on here and in the press over your case, as social work is in the main a thankless, pretty horrible, invariably difficult job, but an extremely important one.

I am not a social worker, nor do I have any close friends or relatives that are. so no axe to grind there. I'm just very wary of huge denouncements of cases where the facts are not known.

that said, it seems that MN has been a good support to you Fran, and I hope that the birth and journey into motherhood is an easier one for you than these last months have been.

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OST that really was a venomous article that you linked to.

It's a teeny-tiny community the MSPB people, both for and against.

That is so true, Elizabeth. And God help anyone who gets caught in the crossfire between the two sides.

Truth is the first casualty of war, and all that sort of thing .....

MM

If in a matter of huge importance only 'one side' will talk, and that 'side' is open about the facts, backed up by doctors, psychologists, lawyers and MPs, then of course it is OK to 'speculate' ie discuss it.

Hi Sophable,

You're right - I do think it's a shame that social services end up vilified in these situations. The whole adversarial nature of these processes forces both sides into such entrenched positions that inevitably don't help anyone.

I'm far from perfect, and with the best will in the world, social workers will from time to time make mistakes. What, to my mind at least, needs to happen is for there to be a better way for everyone involved to accept where there are problems and find ways to resolve them. For either side to insist that they are 100% in the right is just plain daft - and will only see situations like mine repeated time upon time; ultimately to the detriment of the children.

There have been some useful outcomes from this whole process for me. It's forced me to look hard at where any difficulties I have may still lie, and if any past problems may be reawakened by becoming a mother. Whilst such reflection could conceivably have occurred in a more positive fashion it has been useful nonetheless. Thankfully I'm in a position now where I can make sure I have the support around me that will enable me to both recover from the past few months and prevent any past difficulties resurfacing in the future.

It seems to me that there really needs to be a shift in how we as a society understand flaws and mistakes. If we forever try to make complex situations into binary issues, and paint mistakes as bad, as evil, as forever then we will never move forward. Creating a culture in which people are frightened to acknowledge where things have gone wrong personally, professionally or collectively does nothing to help, and everything to hinder, anything at all getting better.

Fran

I totally agree fran.

Sophable - what a great post.

and so refreshing.

I think Sophable's position is pretty reasonable. Obviously not the one I take but reasonable all the same.

Except that poor Fran is not responsible for protecting the public image of social services - all she's done is attempt to defend herself and her baby against monstrous allegations (poisoning by b/f, FFS, it's ludicrous. And I would stake good money on it never, ever, having actualy happened - you can't take strychnine without being affected youself).

The image of SS has taken a battering because they have behaved in an extreme fashion over this. As they have in a whole series of proven, appalling miscarriages of justice. The problems with SS are not limited to this one case. The systemic failures in the professional culture and practice that have led to repeated, appalling wrong-doing have clearly not been tacked.

That includes high profile cases and several known to me personally - one involving one of the most eminent doctors in the country who was threatened, professionally, if he dared to question the mass hysteria of MSbP in relation to one of his patients.

I believe that a full, public inquiry into SS practice in relation to allegations of harm that rest on expert opinion rather than actual fact, esp. MSbP/FII is the only way to restore public confidence. Coming into the open, explaining how they work and why and being able to admit to mistakes and learn from them would actually benefit SS as well as parents.

poor poor girl to have to go through all this, she deserves happiness now after such a bad past, not to be hounded and made guilty before proven innocent, i just hope she and molly are safe and well and can be happy and left alone

Great post Fran. And very, very forgiving of you, in the circs.

Fran, does the fact that you have moved abroad mean that Birmingham social services will not continue to consider your case, or will they come up with a revised plan for what to do if you and Molly come back?

I'd have supported Social Services right up to the point where David Southall and Roy Meadow were discredited. The fact that they have forged right ahead with the MSBP speculations, continuing to use doctors who had been involved in other miscarriages of justice, makes me wonder what on earth they think they are up to.

The rest of the world has moved on and become more enlightened but they are still clinging to disproved beliefs and dodgy practices.

Sophable, someone said in another thread you were training to be a psychiatrist which would place you firmly in medical camp (it was medics who took the lead on MSBP). Was that an error on their part?

Hi, sorry Fran i didnt know you were online here..hope you're doing ok?stay safe and well

Fran your ability to stay so calm & focused is a credit to you,hopefully the authorities wil follow suit.

Soph- wasn't having a pop I was genuinely puzzled as to why you were bringing up an old link, I shouldn't have presumed you were up to speed in the discussion-there have been several similar threads & we are all dipping in &out so iot's difficult to know who has said what, where & when! Sorry

OK then who ACTUALLY knows the facts here? Fran perhaps you can help with a couple of these.

1. Are SS allowed to comment on this case if FL gives permission?
2. If they are allowed to, are they likely to? If not, then why not?
3. Fran, have you expressly given them permission to comment on your case?
4. Fran is there ANYTHING which might be in your records which may make people lose sympathy with you? For example it looks like there will be mention of your illness and hospital admissions etc. Why don't you bring these issues in to the public eye yourself?

My sincere best wishes for a happy outcome for Fran and her baby.

afaik, Sophable is training to be a psychotherapist.
i.e not a medical discipline.

1. Are SS allowed to comment on this case if FL gives permission?
   NO.

2. If they are allowed to, are they likely to? If not, then why not?
   NO.
   because Fran is giving permission teh unborn child (molly) does nto give permission.

3. Fran, have you expressly given them permission to comment on your case?
   Yes. it is my beliefe that FL has indeed asked for SS to be more open as to the facts theyhave but obviously this is a flas lead as they are simply not able to.

4. Fran is there ANYTHING which might be in your records which may make people lose sympathy with you? For example it looks like there will be mention of your illness and hospital admissions etc. Why don't you bring these issues in to the public eye yourself?

From what i have seen FL has been quite open as to her past medical history but i doubt anyone would expect her to give her medical file for public viewing.

This case is not up for public vite as to reach an outcome. yes she may get more supp[ort from teh p[ublic if she gave details of her medical history but it would not alter the outcome of the case.

thanks mamazon. I am pretty new to this, I signed the petition, and have been lurking a bit on here, but I am a bit confused because I thought either Fran or John Hemming had said that SS were allowed to comment if fran gave her permission.

I agree the poor girl has had too much of her life scrutinized in the public eye, but she has said that she is being completely transparent and open about ebverything. She hasn't really mentioned her illness much and I wondered if this was because she had been hoping it would stay private or secret, when it looks like this illness is in fact the thing that is worrying ss most.
I'm not being argumentative or difficult, but I am intyerested.

Hello,

1. I don't know...people here have suggested not, but I'm not sure

1. I don't know - I thought they could, but it seems not.

1. Yes

1. No, and I already did. I've explained a couple of times about the angioedema and the trachy.

I wish I knew who knew all the facts to be honest. There are questions I still haven't had answers to.

Hope this helps,

Fran

Fran - I hope that now you have moved away you and your daughter will live a long happy life together.

i also hope that at the very least this case will have given you an insight into the possibility that your mental health MAY prove problematic later on and that you can deal with it appropriatly should the need arise.

I would have totally understood if you came on here and slated social services in general and you haven't. you have been very generous in your opinion.

I have the upmost respect for you and wish you both all teh very best

Oops - sorry Mamazon, cross posted there. Thanks for clearing that up - it makes more sense now! It was my understanding that they could say more - but yes, without Molly's consent I can see why they can't.

Hmmm. That leaves everyone in a bit of a bind.

Fran

Thanks Mamazon.

I think that was sort of what I was trying to say earlier (in a very wordy fashion); that my mental health could cause problems later if I'm not vigilant and don't ask for help. I've found an english speaking therapist though and so I'm reasonably confident that I'll have support around me if things were to get tough.

If I was ever in any doubt as to my ability to safely care for Molly I'd come straight back to the UK - even if that did mean she went to foster care. This isn't about me, it's about her.

Fran

mamazon

thanks for explaining that us

If Social Services ahven't changed their mind about their concerns, and given the draconian measures they seem to have proposed, won;t they just pass the file on to their Swedish counterparts to make up their own minds, assuming that Fran has informed them where she is?

Why have you said Sweden OST- that has never been mentioned?