British Soldier F gets away with murder.

[AnyName1]

I know little is taught in British schools about the north of Ireland, so wondered if people were aware of this shocking case.

villagemagazine.ie/the-guilt-of-an-unscrupulous-former-lord-chief-justice-in-the-soldier-f-cover-up-paratrooper-who-murdered-unarmed-civilians-on-bloody-sunday-has-been-protected-by-the-british-state-for-five-decades-an/

"Soldier F also known as ‘Dave’ will not now face criminal charges for the murder of innocent civilians in Derry on Bloody Sunday, 30 January 1972. This is because the statement he made after the Bloody Sunday massacre was not taken by the RUC, but rather by the Royal Military Police. These statements have been deemed inadmissable as evidence. Since this was standard procedure at the time, it probably means that no soldiers will be prosecuted for murder in Northern Ireland.

The policy of excluding the RUC from the investigation of killings caused by British solidiers came into existence after Brigadier Frank Kitson took over in Belfast.

Earlier this year Judge James O’Hara presided over the trial of two paratroopers accused of shooting Official IRA volunteer, Joe McCann. He was shot while he ran away from the soldiers. After the trial collapsed, the judge pointed out that:

At that time, in fact until late 1973, an understanding was in place between the RUC and the Army whereby the RUC did not arrest and question, or even take witness statements from, soldiers involved in shootings such as this one. This appalling practice was designed, at least in part, to protect soldiers from being prosecuted and in very large measure it succeeded."

I wholeheartedly agree that the British military must be held accountable for the actions of renegade soldiers. However,I have also encountered reactions that range from don’t care to out right defensive
defiance that somehow everything is justifiable in context of a civil war. There is a disconnect that diminishes the British army responsibility and categorises Irish as other. Other and somehow responsible for violence and murderous acts we suffered.

The great genocide of the Irish, while Ireland was still under full rule of Britain. The great famine, men shot dead for trying to find food to feed their children. The British,with plentiful food,sat back and filled their bellies while the children of Ireland died painful horrific deaths of starvation while all their mothers could only do is be with them for comfort as they lay dying themselves. The people of Ireland will never forget. This isn't taught to children in British schools as the British like to forget. The world has not forgotten though,it is a big part of who the Irish are today and why they are considered to be one of the strongest and most passionate,likeable nations in the world today. They fought back from nothing. They showed no fear when claiming back their land.
Nobody can fault the IRAs cause. Of course the Irish had to fight back,the Irish nation wouldn't exist today if it wasn't for the freedom fighters and Britain would have happily wanted it that way,but it will never be forgotten, it is a massive part of what Ireland is today.

👏 👏

@RamItBunty perfectly put.

Quite so, @Taytocrisps. And if the British had admitted that they got it disastrously wrong on the occasions when their soldiers lost control and fired indiscriminately at civilians, if they had been transparent at the time and allowed the law to take its course against those soldiers or their OCs, the IRA's cause would have been considerably weakened. The IRA was a shambolic mess before BS, and a guerilla army after it. The UK did so much damage trying to perpetuate this myth of moral infallibility.

There are not a lot of British people around here that believe that the solider always acted with integrity and within any moral code however the IRA has more than enough blood on there hands and are not innocent either to this day they won't tell family's where the bodies are buried a woman ripped from her home infront of her children her crime was comforting a british solider as he died outside her house

I struggle to sympathise with any of the bloody mess like everything else it rumbles on and fucking on just when exactly are we going to say yes we know that are grandfather's and fathers were fucking arseholes can we resolve not to do this shit again and move on and prevent anything like this from happening again

Probably not

@Theunamedcat

There are not a lot of British people around here that believe that the solider always acted with integrity and within any moral code however the IRA has more than enough blood on there hands and are not innocent either to this day they won't tell family's where the bodies are buried a woman ripped from her home infront of her children her crime was comforting a british solider as he died outside her house

I struggle to sympathise with any of the bloody mess like everything else it rumbles on and fucking on just when exactly are we going to say yes we know that are grandfather's and fathers were fucking arseholes can we resolve not to do this shit again and move on and prevent anything like this from happening again

Probably not

I really don't understand the point you are trying to make or its relevance to the thread.

A terrorist organisation committed atrocities. Yes, that is what they tend to do.

What relevance does that have to the fact the british army and the british establishment, both of whom should be acting within the law of the land, murdered innocent children and civilians and colluded with terrorists to murder innocent civilians?

Your argument is on a par to saying police officers should be allowed to steal because criminals steal.

however the IRA has more than enough blood on there hands and are not innocent either

What does the crimes of the IRA have to do with the people who were murdered on Bloody Sunday or at ballymurphy? do you think those people were the IRA?

I struggle to sympathise with any of the bloody mess

Amazing.

How many girls were kneecapped, how many women were tarred and feathered. How many civilians were murdered by the IRA in their fight for freedom.?

Why should the IRA had the need to fight for freedom?

And there we have it.the struggle to sympathise or see how morally repugnant it is that Irish citizens are murdered by the British army. The casual otherness of Ireland, not in your doorstep, on is in your tv but it’s not your problem. So no scrutiny or accountability is demanded and it’s a struggle to sympathise. But for sure the same people will show how big hearted and humane they are by donating to war torn zones, giving to charity. That kind of sympathy they can do.

@Theunamedcat

There are not a lot of British people around here that believe that the solider always acted with integrity and within any moral code however the IRA has more than enough blood on there hands and are not innocent either to this day they won't tell family's where the bodies are buried a woman ripped from her home infront of her children her crime was comforting a british solider as he died outside her house

I struggle to sympathise with any of the bloody mess like everything else it rumbles on and fucking on just when exactly are we going to say yes we know that are grandfather's and fathers were fucking arseholes can we resolve not to do this shit again and move on and prevent anything like this from happening again

Probably not

I don't think you're being asked to sympathise or to spend any time thinking about this, are you though? I mean there are lots of conflicts, lots of injustices worldwide that I've given little thought to. I still would want to see war crimes prosecuted. That makes a safer world for everyone, surely?

I'd be more concerned if the soldiers were from my own country. I'd want to know what was stopping this from happening again.

No-one is talking about people's fathers and grandfathers - soldiers B and F are still around.

I’m trying to imagine being the sort of person who, upon hearing about the children bombed in their school in Syria, says “I struggle to sympathise because ISIS have beheaded people”

@MotionActivatedDog

I’m trying to imagine being the sort of person who, upon hearing about the children bombed in their school in Syria, says “I struggle to sympathise because ISIS have beheaded people”

Great point

@Theunamedcat

There are not a lot of British people around here that believe that the solider always acted with integrity and within any moral code however the IRA has more than enough blood on there hands and are not innocent either to this day they won't tell family's where the bodies are buried a woman ripped from her home infront of her children her crime was comforting a british solider as he died outside her house

I struggle to sympathise with any of the bloody mess like everything else it rumbles on and fucking on just when exactly are we going to say yes we know that are grandfather's and fathers were fucking arseholes can we resolve not to do this shit again and move on and prevent anything like this from happening again

Probably not

You really can't sympathise with the families of young people murdered by the British army

Really?

You really can't have any empathy at all

My god, you are beyond help

I struggle to sympathise with any of the bloody mess

I don't understand. You struggle to empathise that innocent people lost their lives because terrorists kill people? Why is what the terrorists do relevant? Do you think the people killed were terrorists?

@Theunamedcat

There are not a lot of British people around here that believe that the solider always acted with integrity and within any moral code however the IRA has more than enough blood on there hands and are not innocent either to this day they won't tell family's where the bodies are buried a woman ripped from her home infront of her children her crime was comforting a british solider as he died outside her house

I struggle to sympathise with any of the bloody mess like everything else it rumbles on and fucking on just when exactly are we going to say yes we know that are grandfather's and fathers were fucking arseholes can we resolve not to do this shit again and move on and prevent anything like this from happening again

Probably not

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-children-killed-in-troubles-than-first-thought-says-new-book-1.4045475

Do yourself a favour, buy the book read it then come back and say you've no sympathy for murdered children or their families.

Most people posting on here wouldn't have the first clue about how British soldiers treated the nationalist community during the troubles, I luckily grew up in a mixed area but my dh comes from a small nationalist estate and he's still troubled by what he saw growing up and how thry were treated. My mums 12 year old cousin was shot dead by a British soldier in the 70s when coming home from school, of course he was never prosecuted either. Its painful for me to even read through threads like this when most people really don't know the history or even have any notion to research it.

I really don't understand the point you are trying to make or its relevance to the thread.

A terrorist organisation committed atrocities. Yes, that is what they tend to do.

What relevance does that have to the fact the british army and the british establishment, both of whom should be acting within the law of the land, murdered innocent children and civilians and colluded with terrorists to murder innocent civilians?

Your argument is on a par to saying police officers should be allowed to steal because criminals steal.

I'm not sure about this. Surely the answer is that all people who kill other people are murderers and should be brought to justice? So the IRA don't get a free pass because, well they're terrorists so of course they kill people. And neither do "soldiers" who murder to order and call it a "career".

@SunflowerGiraffe - I'm not sure about this. Surely the answer is that all people who kill other people are murderers and should be brought to justice

That is exactly the point I was making. Terrorists don't get a free pass. Arguing that defence forces should get a free pass because terrorists commit the same crimes is ridiculous.

To quote that odious woman, Margaret Thatcher - There is no such thing as political murder, political bombing or political violence. There is only criminal murder, criminal bombing and criminal violence.

Funnily enough, she was only willing to apply that logic to the republican terrorists.

I'd happily see every terrorist that caused deaths by bombing or any other means in mainland UK , plus
ppl in Ireland the killed put in the Dock.

A soldier who has shot a child obviously unarmed needs dealt with too.

The problem with some older children that were shot was they were part of the IRA and known terrorists.

And the IRA are still committing crimes with no punishment.

@Torvean

I'd happily see every terrorist that caused deaths by bombing or any other means in mainland UK , plus ppl in Ireland the killed put in the Dock.

A soldier who has shot a child obviously unarmed needs dealt with too.

The problem with some older children that were shot was they were part of the IRA and known terrorists.

And the IRA are still committing crimes with no punishment.

Is any of that relevant to the events of Bloody Sunday?

@Torvean

I'd happily see every terrorist that caused deaths by bombing or any other means in mainland UK , plus ppl in Ireland the killed put in the Dock.

A soldier who has shot a child obviously unarmed needs dealt with too.

The problem with some older children that were shot was they were part of the IRA and known terrorists.

And the IRA are still committing crimes with no punishment.

Whataboutery, whataboutery, whataboutery...

@Torvean

I'd happily see every terrorist that caused deaths by bombing or any other means in mainland UK , plus ppl in Ireland the killed put in the Dock.

A soldier who has shot a child obviously unarmed needs dealt with too.

The problem with some older children that were shot was they were part of the IRA and known terrorists.

And the IRA are still committing crimes with no punishment.

So you think it's ok for members of the defence forces to shoot unarmed civilians in the back as they might have been involved in crimes?

Would you be ok with that in your neighbourhood too or is it only ok if the people they are murdering are Irish?

Why not just get rid of courts altogether? After all, they know who's committing the crimes so just let the army loose and kill the bastards.

I watched the Spotlight series on iplayer and would recommend it to those who seem to be lacking in empathy or can't grasp the differences between the IRA and the British Army

Make sure you watch the episode about the indiscriminate murdering of catholics by the social misfit loyalists