British Soldier F gets away with murder.

[AnyName1]

I know little is taught in British schools about the north of Ireland, so wondered if people were aware of this shocking case.

villagemagazine.ie/the-guilt-of-an-unscrupulous-former-lord-chief-justice-in-the-soldier-f-cover-up-paratrooper-who-murdered-unarmed-civilians-on-bloody-sunday-has-been-protected-by-the-british-state-for-five-decades-an/

"Soldier F also known as ‘Dave’ will not now face criminal charges for the murder of innocent civilians in Derry on Bloody Sunday, 30 January 1972. This is because the statement he made after the Bloody Sunday massacre was not taken by the RUC, but rather by the Royal Military Police. These statements have been deemed inadmissable as evidence. Since this was standard procedure at the time, it probably means that no soldiers will be prosecuted for murder in Northern Ireland.

The policy of excluding the RUC from the investigation of killings caused by British solidiers came into existence after Brigadier Frank Kitson took over in Belfast.

Earlier this year Judge James O’Hara presided over the trial of two paratroopers accused of shooting Official IRA volunteer, Joe McCann. He was shot while he ran away from the soldiers. After the trial collapsed, the judge pointed out that:

At that time, in fact until late 1973, an understanding was in place between the RUC and the Army whereby the RUC did not arrest and question, or even take witness statements from, soldiers involved in shootings such as this one. This appalling practice was designed, at least in part, to protect soldiers from being prosecuted and in very large measure it succeeded."

To the poster saying they would support this when the IRA were also charged, I’m pretty sure members of the IRA were imprisoned for their crimes? So that’s already happened.

I think it's clearly harder to hold civilians (members of the IRA) to account, they were clearly hiding their identities and often protected by communities. Where there is evidence of exactly who committed what acts against other civilians there should be similar murder cases brought. I think it's clear in this case that what occurred was unjustified and unjustifiable and amounts to murder. I just hope they can bring some of the other cases forward in the future and receive some kind of justice for those families.

I absolutely don't think being a soldier should prevent you from receiving punishment for crimes including murder. It's not ok to say we won't punish British soldiers just because the 'enemy' won't punish theirs in the same way. If they were given a pardon as a soldier I don't doubt we'd be even less aware of some of the atrocities committed by soldiers. Most clearly don't do this and are professionals and doing their jobs well.

I learnt about the early fights for independence in Ireland during my A-level history but it stopped at just before WWII, I guess it is still in living memory and therefore a more contentious topic. My uncle was station in Ireland for a time in the late 70's/80's as a Royal Marine. He's not a particularly nice man and has some horrific views and while I don't doubt he saw and experienced some awful things I thing is personality always leaned to the selfish and mean side. If he had committed any of the crimes which these soldiers have I would want and expect him to go to trial and have the law enforced.

They even imprisoned IRA members when they didn't commit crimes. Just to be sure.

@Fuckingcrustybread

Ok, I get the sentiment of this post. No more comments from me.

Reality is tough babes. Maybe suss it out before you spout utter shite again. The reality and honest facts about what happened are readily available to you and everyone else now. It's worth a glance before spouting 'well I heard this as a child 30 years ago so it must be true'.

Its sickening.

Torvean

You are missing out the story of soldiers who drove the wrong way that day. Tried to get out of the area , and one in particular was chased down and killed.

No-one denies British soldiers were attacked. Not at this event though. Soldier F would have got nowhere near trial if he'd been defending himself or his comrades - rightly so, too

I remember as a child in the 80s /early 90s seeing the Massacre caused by the IRA. They could not care less about killing children.

Which justifies British army massacres twenty years earlier, how exactly?

No idea why they're trying to make moral claims. Plenty of ppl in NI will tell you what the IRA still does ,despite it not making mainstream news.

Who are trying to make moral claims. The IRA haven't regrouped to put out a statement. Irish (and I am sure many many British) people are disappointed to see the murder of innocent civilians won't be prosecuted. We aren't speaking on behalf of the IRA. Those demonstraters weren't marching on behalf of the IRA. We are not apologists for the IRA.

The whataboutery re: the IRA on here is unsurprising. Whatever you think of the 'ra, surely you should expect soldiers of an official army to treat their own countrymen better. Says a lot about your opinion of your army (presuming these posters are British) if you're equating them to a terrorist group.

Interesting, Northofsomewhere, I think any organisation can have it's more extreme members, like your uncle and of course some IRA members. It's the repercussions they face for their actions that will deter others from the same type of behaviour. The British justice system has proven it will defend them, no matter the atrocity.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/bloody-liar/amp

Leaving this here

@SionnachRua

The whataboutery re: the IRA on here is unsurprising. Whatever you think of the 'ra, surely you should expect soldiers of an official army to treat their own countrymen better. Says a lot about your opinion of your army (presuming these posters are British) if you're equating them to a terrorist group.

This!! People defending what the British army did(I'm saying this as someone who has family members be in that organisation) are essentially saying "I'm glad my taxes and our people went to killing paddy kids and defending those killers rather than going to health care or anything decent that would help my family that the money could have gone to. War is more important than anything".

Dave killed and killed. With total impunity then and total impunity now.

@MegCleary

www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/bloody-liar/amp

Leaving this here

That well known IRA mouthpiece, the Spectator. (Thanks @MegCleary - very interesting)

@Fuckingcrustybread

When countries are at war no soldiers should be prosecuted. I'll support prosecution of all British soldiers when all IRA soldiers are equally prosecuted.

There wasn't two countries at war here, for a start. I'll leave it there because it will otherwise derail the thread.

Why is this evil mans identity being protected?
It should never have happened,what we're the British doing?
Have they not caused enough harm to the Irish in the past?

@belleager it’s a revealing piece from a surprising source

When I was looking for link for my opening post I was trying to avoid Irish publications so British readers might trust it as more unbiased. I didn't think to check The Spectator!

Have you considered reports/statements/ anything from outside of britpress? There's never one side to a story ( see Hillsborough and how that wad reported).

I knew nothing about the Ballymurphy massacre until this year - ten killed. All unarmed and innocent. No prospect of prosecutions even now the army's guilt has been proved.

John Teggart, son of Daniel Teggart [killed aged 44] said: "I want to speak directly to the people of Britain at this moment. Can you imagine what would happen if the British soldiers murdered 10 unarmed civilians on the streets of London, Liverpool or Birmingham?

"What would you expect, an investigation? Would you expect justice? Or would you be happy for them to get an amnesty?"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56986784

The army has got away with lies, for years. Soldier F would have been a rare exception, standing trial. Current government has made it clear they don't want to see justice in these cases.

Good point, Ruggerhug.

@Fuckingcrustybread - When countries are at war no soldiers should be prosecuted. I'll support prosecution of all British soldiers when all IRA soldiers are equally prosecuted.

Given the British government have always insisted they were not at war, this obviously doesn't apply (aside from which, the Geneva convention disagrees with you).

Even by your argument, British soldiers should be prosecuted. We're currently at 4 soldiers convicted. Hundreds of members of the IRA have been convicted so they've a bit of catching up to do in convicting the soldiers. Unfortunately, the British government has repeatedly obstructed the course of justice so I won't hold my breath.

Kanaloa

To the poster saying they would support this when the IRA were also charged, I’m pretty sure members of the IRA were imprisoned for their crimes? So that’s already happened

But then they were all let out.

Atm there are too many people who lived through the reality of the IRA. Too many people who’s lives were changed by their actions. I know we are supposed to forgive and forget but that should be both sides. Not just one side who are now immune to any prosecution.

It’s really difficult to have a conversation about the prolonged injustice & violence perpetrated by the British army in NI. Unfortunately it gets derailed without inquiry. Or dismissed as embellished republican story’s. on a human level violence and injustice was meted out to us and no one is held accountable. I also wouldn’t expect those out with the troubles to get it

The great genocide of the Irish, while Ireland was still under full rule of Britain. The great famine, men shot dead for trying to find food to feed their children. The British,with plentiful food,sat back and filled their bellies while the children of Ireland died painful horrific deaths of starvation while all their mothers could only do is be with them for comfort as they lay dying themselves. The people of Ireland will never forget. This isn't taught to children in British schools as the British like to forget. The world has not forgotten though,it is a big part of who the Irish are today and why they are considered to be one of the strongest and most passionate,likeable nations in the world today. They fought back from nothing. They showed no fear when claiming back their land.
Nobody can fault the IRAs cause. Of course the Irish had to fight back,the Irish nation wouldn't exist today if it wasn't for the freedom fighters and Britain would have happily wanted it that way,but it will never be forgotten, it is a massive part of what Ireland is today.

The feckin irony of saying that the IRA are being let away with murder when far more of them have been convicted than any British soldier. That's without mentioning the loyalist paramilitaries - always interesting how they're left out, isn't it? Let's just focus everything on the republicans.

And again, if you consider your army to be on par with paramilitaries, there must be a massive problem with that army.

@pallisers
There is no such thing as "IRA soldiers" . Although the IRA thought they were soldiers and would be heartened by you calling them so
I was going to refer to them as murderous fucking terrorists. I tried to be slightly polite but fuck that now.