British Soldier F gets away with murder.

[AnyName1]

I know little is taught in British schools about the north of Ireland, so wondered if people were aware of this shocking case.

villagemagazine.ie/the-guilt-of-an-unscrupulous-former-lord-chief-justice-in-the-soldier-f-cover-up-paratrooper-who-murdered-unarmed-civilians-on-bloody-sunday-has-been-protected-by-the-british-state-for-five-decades-an/

"Soldier F also known as ‘Dave’ will not now face criminal charges for the murder of innocent civilians in Derry on Bloody Sunday, 30 January 1972. This is because the statement he made after the Bloody Sunday massacre was not taken by the RUC, but rather by the Royal Military Police. These statements have been deemed inadmissable as evidence. Since this was standard procedure at the time, it probably means that no soldiers will be prosecuted for murder in Northern Ireland.

The policy of excluding the RUC from the investigation of killings caused by British solidiers came into existence after Brigadier Frank Kitson took over in Belfast.

Earlier this year Judge James O’Hara presided over the trial of two paratroopers accused of shooting Official IRA volunteer, Joe McCann. He was shot while he ran away from the soldiers. After the trial collapsed, the judge pointed out that:

At that time, in fact until late 1973, an understanding was in place between the RUC and the Army whereby the RUC did not arrest and question, or even take witness statements from, soldiers involved in shootings such as this one. This appalling practice was designed, at least in part, to protect soldiers from being prosecuted and in very large measure it succeeded."

That's without mentioning the loyalist paramilitaries - always interesting how they're left out, isn't it? Let's just focus everything on the republicans.

I don't understand why they are always left out of the "story". It's always "but the IRA".

Also criticising the BAs behaviour doesn't equal I think the IRA was right.

Do people in the UK not get that this was an army firing on its own people? This was an army in the streets against its own citizens?

No they don't actually get it.

Someone else mentioned Hillsborough.

Same dynamic.

Agree

I really believe that unless you were present that day,to witness first hand what happened you will never know enough to give an honest opinion. It was a different time, a different atmosphere, totally unimaginable to people who didn't live among it or witness it. Leave the past in the past. The truth will never be known..

Mare mare .I have stated if they can prove wrong doing of course they should prosecute. I have plenty relatives still there who say it was a terrible time to live in Ireland but even they admit the ira did some terrible things as well .it was a time when no one trusted anyone even there own side .

What makes you think that the Saville Report didn’t get to the truth, CantBeAssed? Have you read it?

@aprilanne

Mare mare .I have stated if they can prove wrong doing of course they should prosecute. I have plenty relatives still there who say it was a terrible time to live in Ireland but even they admit the ira did some terrible things as well .it was a time when no one trusted anyone even there own side .

Seriously, you need to interrogate exactly what you mean by ‘side’ here. Are you actually suggesting that the republican paramilitaries are one ‘side’ and the British army another? Incidentally, are you even aware of the existence of loyalist paramilitaries, or do you imagine the IRA operated in a vacuum?

There is a huge difference between military actions and killing in the course of fighting compared to murder and torture.
Of course they should be held to account if they decide to rape, torture or kill in cold blood.
A khaki uniform shouldn’t prevent that - more popular jingoism. War does not war crimes.

It's wrong.

So was the murder of all the innocents by the IRA, including children.

All sides should be held to account for their actions, families should get justice and their day in court.

@douliket

The great genocide of the Irish, while Ireland was still under full rule of Britain. The great famine, men shot dead for trying to find food to feed their children. The British,with plentiful food,sat back and filled their bellies while the children of Ireland died painful horrific deaths of starvation while all their mothers could only do is be with them for comfort as they lay dying themselves. The people of Ireland will never forget. This isn't taught to children in British schools as the British like to forget. The world has not forgotten though,it is a big part of who the Irish are today and why they are considered to be one of the strongest and most passionate,likeable nations in the world today. They fought back from nothing. They showed no fear when claiming back their land. Nobody can fault the IRAs cause. Of course the Irish had to fight back,the Irish nation wouldn't exist today if it wasn't for the freedom fighters and Britain would have happily wanted it that way,but it will never be forgotten, it is a massive part of what Ireland is today.

The famine was taught at my school, along with the plantation of Ireland, home rule and partition. But that was in the days before the National Curriculumn controlled what is taught in schools, and even then it wasn't part of the o-level syllabus (well, not for the London board, others may have been different).

Partition was a disaster and Lloyd George has a lot to answer for imo. And Cromwell has even more to answer for.

The English ignorance on this thread is absolutely astounding

@CantBeAssed

I really believe that unless you were present that day,to witness first hand what happened you will never know enough to give an honest opinion. It was a different time, a different atmosphere, totally unimaginable to people who didn't live among it or witness it. Leave the past in the past. The truth will never be known..

'Leave the past in the past'. You saying this applies to all crimes or just this? Because it's a bold statement.

but we cannot prosecute one side without looking at IRA behaviour

🤦🏻‍♀️

@ouchmyfeet

The English ignorance on this thread is absolutely astounding

And the tansplaining of Irish history.

I have plenty relatives still there who say it was a terrible time to live in Ireland but even they admit the ira did some terrible things as well

No one would disagree. Do they not mention the loyalists though?

I really believe that unless you were present that day,to witness first hand what happened you will never know enough to give an honest opinion.

🤔

@CantBeAssed

I really believe that unless you were present that day,to witness first hand what happened you will never know enough to give an honest opinion. It was a different time, a different atmosphere, totally unimaginable to people who didn't live among it or witness it. Leave the past in the past. The truth will never be known..

Should we have said the same of Nazi war criminals? Do we leave the murder, the shooting and hanging of civilians in village centres and towns in the past?

@CantBeAssed

I really believe that unless you were present that day,to witness first hand what happened you will never know enough to give an honest opinion. It was a different time, a different atmosphere, totally unimaginable to people who didn't live among it or witness it. Leave the past in the past. The truth will never be known..

I’m sure you’d be thrilled to leave the past in the past if the British army shot your unarmed fifteen year old. Also, do you regard all historical events you didn’t personally witness as unverified theories?

Thanks @RuggerHug

none of this is my petsonal history (I'm Hungarian) and I certainly don't know anything about military law to comment.
Bloody Sunday happened before I was born.

I'll watch the film you recommended.

*personal

Mare mare of course I am aware of the loyalist paramilitaries .who were also embroiled in murdering thuggery .but the op post was about the British paras behaviour. It was a time of savagery and god help people like my great grandparents in a mixed religion marriage

The English ignorance on this thread is absolutely astounding
And the tansplaining of Irish history.

It's embarrassing.

The narrative is NI is part of Ireland, everyone is NI was irish & therefore supportive on the IRA. The innocents marching deserved to be shot at as no doubt they were troublemakers & secret terrorists. It's why the loyalist involvement & casualties are ignored because they happened in NI not England so again not really relevant.

@Willyoujustbequiet

It's wrong.

So was the murder of all the innocents by the IRA, including children.

All sides should be held to account for their actions, families should get justice and their day in court.

I think there would be benefit from having some sort of "truth and reconciliation" process, like the one they had in South Africa after apartheid.

When countries are at war no soldiers should be prosecuted. I'll support prosecution of all British soldiers when all IRA soldiers are equally prosecuted.

Geneva Conventions, look them up.

@ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba

Thanks *@RuggerHug*

none of this is my petsonal history (I'm Hungarian) and I certainly don't know anything about military law to comment.
Bloody Sunday happened before I was born.

I'll watch the film you recommended.

Sound. It is about the famine not the Troubles but is well worth a watch to show the attitude of history. If you want anything about the Troubles ask away (I'm a huge believer in films and TV being done right as a brilliant way of showing 'history' in a way that isn't trawling through heavy text).