David Cameron's speech - did anyone think he could just have turned the polls round?

[TheDullWitch]

That striding about without notes business was quite impressive. I did get bored though.

I have an enormous problem with ID cards, so much so that I'm prepared to face the consequences of not having one.

It's a gross infringement of civil liberty.

The rest of Europe might well have them, but I'm British, and I'd sooner poke an ID card up the PM's arse in broad daylight, then carry one of those things in my purse. It is sufficient to say that the tax man knows who I am. So fecking ask him ....

Desi, I completely agree.

Well then, let us start painting our banners, Pumpkin!

do you carry your photo driving license around, desiderata?

I don't give a sod about immigration. I'm quite happy, ta very much, with my lovely Polish neighbours and all the interesting new Polish food I can buy at Tesco now.

The government can, however, wait until I commit a criminal offense before they get my 'biometrics'. Yes, I frigging well do have something to hide from any bugger who can access a cocked-up database. It's called privacy, and I don't care if you show me yours, you ain't seein' mine.

same old shit, but in different colours.

zac goldsmith's wife is called sheherazade (approx sp)

blimey

Blimey, I bet the vicar had to practice well on their wedding day.

I don't drive, Senora, but in any event, it's an entirely different matter.

In fact, a driver's license ought to be perfectly sufficient, wouldn't you agree?

I do drive and I don't carry mine around with me. It's not a legal requirement.

well allegedly Zac doesn't let a little thing like a wife called Sheherezade get in the way of a little womanising, so form an orderly queue ladies...
sop it says here anyway

I'm with fiofio and dr northener dick party

*paints banners..

I hate that argument ..."if you've got nothing to hide..." Eurgh. I give it about 3 seconds from ID card implementation to Tesco buying out all the information on the cards.

OMG, i cant believe we are even discussing this! have we forgotten what Britain was like under the Tories? I certainly haven't and will therefore be voting labour again. Tax Credits have been a lifeline for us (and most families) Free Nursery places: ditto. Maternity Leave: ditto i could go on and on.

Um, lissie, according to your profile you were born in 1978? One year before Thatcher came to power.

So, how well do you remember those days?

You don't have to like the woman, but believe me, the things that we all take for granted now are part and parcel of her legacy.

And arguments about free child-care, etc., etc., are academic. The Tories haven't been in power for ten years, so we have no way of knowing what they would or wouldn't have done in that time.

I live in a council flat that we were able to buy. That is massive empowerment for someone of my class ... and I thank the previous Tory administration for making that possible.

lissie. that was kind of my point.

it makes me laugh when the tories try to use "the family tax credits fiasco" against labour.

anyway re driving licenses: I was just wondering, because the photo license has become a de facto id card for many, that's all. obv not for you two.

i grew up under thatcher. my dad lost his job and couldnt get work, we lived below the bread line (not poverty "i cant afford new shoes" but poverty "we cant eat today") thatcher sold off all the coal mines etc so no heating. so even tho i was young, i still remember

Yes, it may be that, Senora. The primary purpose of a car license, however, is to identify a driver ... and the way most people drive, it's probably just as well!

I cannot see the stepping stone between the two. A driving license is one thing. Proving your identify by virtue of biometrics, in a country that is supposed to be free, in a democracy that we've been chipping away at for a thousand years, seems to me, like a slap in the face.

This government, beyond all others, has taken the Big Brother concept too far. This is left-wing politics at its very, very worst.

Jobs for the boys, as always. They will not have the satisfaction of my image on an ID card. I REFUSE. What are they going to do about that?

And I live below the breadline now, lissie.

I grew up under Thatcher too, and my union man dad lost his job and we couldn't afford sanitary towels. But Thatcher's not actually up for election, and I really don't trust pension-grabbing Gordon as far as I can throw him.

I know I got snarky with someone earlier for bringing up the war, but Blair didn't hold the sodding purse strings, Brown did. He hasn't been parachuted in from Integrity-land.

i actually get v cross when people use the war in iraq against labour. would the tories have done anything differently? it is easy for us to shake our heads at needless fighting from the safety of our computers, knowing that we are relatively safe. one of my brothers has served in iraq and another one will be going out in april. K is adamant that we SHOULD be out there. and as he has seen what is happening first hand, im inclined to believe him tbh

A DL is not the same as an ID card.

I will not vote Tory, but it seems ridiculous to me to say that you will not do so based on the exploits of Thatcher. You will not be electing Thatcher.

Surely you should be looking at the policies of the candidates that will actually be in the running?

Gordy has aligned himself with Thatch

Bet you couldn't throw Gordon far, sue....with that massive head, his centre of gravity must be quite high

This idea that the only people who were ever fucked off in the 1980s were miners is a fallacy. Most of them got a bloody good pay out. It was an event ... the 1980s. But it had to happen in order to shape the world we now live in.

Look, we all have fairly trenchant views, but Mr Brown totally fucked up the British pension schemes. He is as culpable as Mrs Thatcher with the mines (although the mines were inevitable), and he appears to have got away with it. Different times ... and credit cards. No one knows who the hell to blame any more.