David Cameron's speech - did anyone think he could just have turned the polls round?

[TheDullWitch]

That striding about without notes business was quite impressive. I did get bored though.

Same here, Desi ( my dad worked shifts.)

Had a moment of flirtation with new labour but quickly realised that they were as sleazy as the tories had been but also total hypocrites.

What do you mean by detachment from reality?

(In words of one syllable, for an unprivileged badly educated leftie)

So by your reckoning, the poor would be better voting Conservative because that will improve their safety, the NHS and education?

Were you around in the 80s...???

I didn't dodge it but I don't think the least well-off are much affected by it - unless you are suggesting that the Tories would reduce VAT, fuel tax etc?

OK, if what was done in the 80s is irrelevant, are the current proposals to spend more on education, the NHS etc? I was a parent gov in the 80/90s and school budgets were slashed - they are enormously better since 1997 - will Dave increase spending?

I don't know what the tory plans are regarding education funding. But surely some of the importance is not the amount you spend, but how you spend it? Oh but of course, all teachers are delighted about the changes brought in by the current administration?

PCSmum how many of those 6 london state schools are religious?

Slug swans back into the debate having left it to simmer for a day or two...

My point about DC stuffing his cabinet with old Etonians is this...Eton is a very small school. Yes it is elitist, but that does not mean that everyone who went to Eton is a no chinned upper class toff. BUT...Why choose your cabinet from such a small pool? There are many Tories who had a state education, many of them are quite talented, many are very bright, so why are they not in the cabinet? Why is it that such power is concentrated in a group from a very resticted background? It implies that DC is more comfortable with people who have a similar background to him. Where are the ethnic minorities, the women,(Theresa May excepted) and the scions of the lower classes? Banging on the glass ceiling.

I don't understand why this 'no notes' thing is so impressive. He's had a few memory tips from Derren Brown - big deal?

By this criteria, we should we be voting for actors who have learnt all of Lear!

slug are you suggesting that Tony Blair and the labour party are not guilty of nepotism?

Did anyone see Alan Johnson (Health Secretary) last night criticising Gordon Brown?

no cammelia- do tell?

have had a look at the league tables [[http://education.guardian.co.uk/schooltables/page/alevel/comprehensives/1,,2149982,00.html here) Can't see any central london schools that are not religious until you get to 144th on the list. And that school is run independently. (I don't count elstree, mill hill or barnet as central london)

oops link here

Suey2, I read your post on why you're a tory and realised that I agree with almost everything you said and yet I'm a labour voter!

I actually think there's an enormous section of society who agree on so many principles yet they perceive different parties to be the ones offering them.

I agree wholeheartedly that there is a distasteful elitism within the labour party. Whilst I voted for TB and liked him as a PM, I was under no illusion that he would have thought me equal. I'm well educated but choose to SAH and I live in the countryside. New Labour would rather I was working f/t to support the economy. John Major would have respected me more

However, I cannot bring myself to vote Tory because IME, there is a huge chunk of both the Tory party and Tory voters who acually like the varying levels and divisions in society. They want someone to look down on. They enjoy (in their opinion) that they are wealthier/more refined/better parents etc. They read the DM and fret about house prices and crime whilst never considering why things like anti-social behaviour occur. They live in there on world, concerned about their community, their family, their taxes without any concern for great sections of our society who are desperately struggling. It makes me so and

For the record, I would never suggest that that all Tories felt/acted this way so I couldn't 'despise' a huge section of society. It's just that so many in your party do. Also, I am fortunate enough to be financially comfortable so this post isn't written with bitterness.

'their own world'

That's more a perception than a fact, otherwise name and shame

more than a fact

that's really interesting cushioncover! It is amazing the different perceptions people have. (BTW I am not a member of the tory party, i am a tory voter- I don't believe in everything they espouse nor do i hate everything labour does) My experience of tory voters couldn't be more different.

cushioncover,
That was really refreshing,apart from the middle section of course, although I suspect you may be right. In fact I think you've hit the nail on the head. Because surely on each side of the political divide there are people like you, suey2 and myself who are definite about which way they vote but have similar ideals. Ultimately we're after roughly the same things although we may disagree on how we get there, but are open to ideas.Personally I know that there are some things that Labour have improved eg more free pre-school education which has certainly helped us since we are not loaded(despite what some people imply about tory voters!) Similarly, there are people on each side of the political divide who are red/blue/yellow/green etc through and through and have a very narrow view of what that means.They are completely blinkered and represent the worst section of politics (on all sides!)
IMO the whole point of government is to keep the country running smoothly which requires some crossing over of opinion - heaven forbid!!

Nimnom, I agree. I hate the misconception that all Tory voters are wealthy and snobs and all Labour voters are either poor and bitter or loony. I'm about as far removed fromthe 'loony left' as Bubble calls them as you guys.

My point was about a 'section' of the Tory party which, to me, was so unappealing as to make me feel I could never vote for them.

When I heard the Tories earlier this week claiming labour hadstolen their policies I wanted to scream at the PMto say,'Yes, we listened, it was good so we used/adapted it.' (not that I agreed with it mind. Personally, I see IHT as a reasonably 'gentle' way to raise revenue but thats only my opinion )
We need more listening and cross party idea IMO!