Asylum seekers in small boats.

[randomer]

What is so dreadful about France that somebody would put unaccompanied children in a dingy and send them to England? I just can't begin to imagine what is going on. Is it a brutal regime in other European countries?

I should add that this isn't some racist rant. I understand that England and English is a draw for many, they may have relatives here and so on.

@Xenia

Yes, so if we can have the royal navy in French waters and turn the boats around before they get into UK waters then we can help save the lives of women and children (and the young men) and it would be win win all round.

Well as things stand we can't. So what's the next plan ?

I am not in charge but we could make it clearer that the UK is not the promised land; show people we don't live as they might see in some soap operas, explain how difficult life can be here; we need carrots and sticks so eg if you make it here we take you back the same day to ~France and you pay for that crossing if you have any funds or possessions to fund it as you are safe in France so must be an economic migrant.

We could not put people up in Hilton Hotels many UK citizens could never afford but go for the French kind of provision.

@Xenia

I am not in charge but we could make it clearer that the UK is not the promised land; show people we don't live as they might see in some soap operas, explain how difficult life can be here; we need carrots and sticks so eg if you make it here we take you back the same day to ~France and you pay for that crossing if you have any funds or possessions to fund it as you are safe in France so must be an economic migrant.

We could not put people up in Hilton Hotels many UK citizens could never afford but go for the French kind of provision.

So why are we advertising abroad for people to come to the wonderful UK ? From the Prime Minister down

Make your mind up. Either the UK is worth coming to. Or it's not.

And the immigrants coming from Hong Kong? Are we going to welcome them?

I think cultures differ across the world but not that they necessarily are better/worse in all or any aspects

I don’t believe in cultural relativism.

I’m actually amazed you are so blinkered on this given the breadth of your travels

I’m amazed you are so naive. It really does make me wonder if you lived in an expat bubble and were shielded from these types of experiences.

You seem to have managed to move through and live in the Middle East without meeting anyone you like or respect

This is demonstrably false. Please quote wherever I said anything like this.

I’ve met plenty of locals I like and respect. There are aspects of the local culture I admire. But beyond the individual person, any culture that doesn’t respect the equality of women does not get much respect from me.

Again, I can’t believe I have to qualify anything I say with NAMALT but far too many young men from the MENA have downright toxic views of women.

I think far too many people from the uk have downright toxic views of people from different cultures than their own. It’s tiresome and slightly embarrassing. I can’t believe you expect your ridiculous stereotypes to be swallowed hook line and sinker and have the audacity to trot out the tedious NAMALT tosh to defend your shocking racism, xenophobia and islamaphobia. I’m sure you have AN experience of the these regions but it seems utterly lacking in any depth or thought.

I think far too many people from the uk have downright toxic views of people from different cultures than their own

I’m not even from the U.K. I was just a legal immigrant at one point. Nice try though 😂😂😂

I can’t believe you expect your ridiculous stereotypes to be swallowed hook line and sinker and have the audacity to trot out the tedious NAMALT tosh to defend your shocking racism, xenophobia and islamaphobia

You are getting very angry and insulting me, but where’s the lie in anything I said? I gave you very clear examples of the misogyny here in the MENA, things reported in the media too, and you’ve not refuted any of it. Just handwaved it all away as if it didn’t matter.

What about the shocking misogyny I’ve experienced here? Does that not even matter to you?

Your experience is yours, mine is mine. I’m not pretending ALL people from any region are good but you seem happy to paint whole swathes of the human race as evil. Racism/xenophobia/Islam a phobia do make me angry. Utterly depressing in every way.

Ofcourse some people will come here and cause problems. Its really nieve to believe that everyone that comes here from a different country - especially those that have extremely different cultures and values to the west will come here and accept western values, integrate and be assets to the country. But at the same time, immigrants can and do fit in to life in Britain contribute to society and are law obiding citizens.

There is no point sitting here arguing that they are all wonderful or they are all awful and dangerous. Like with any population - it's a mixed bag.

Which is why we need controls in place and not just let anyone who hops on a lorry or a dingy across the Channel stay in the UK.

I think we should have an asylum office in Calis and other European acsess points, where you can make a free application. We need to know who's coming here and why.

And anyone that thinks some Muslim men don't have different attitudes towards women must be willfully ignorant. I've known since I was 13 years old to be cautious of Asian men, before I even knew what being Muslim meant - through constant harrasment and attacks by men from those communities.

And anyone that thinks some Muslim men don't have different attitudes towards women must be willfully ignorant. I've known since I was 13 years old to be cautious of Asian men, before I even knew what being Muslim meant - through constant harrasment and attacks by men from those communities.*

Does anyone think that SOME Muslim men aren’t a threat?
Asian and Muslim used interchangeably on a thread about asylum seekers predominantly from the Middle East and North Africa is fairly WILFULLY ignorant.

I've known since I was 13 years old to be cautious of Asian men, before I even knew what being Muslim meant - through constant harrasment and attacks by men from those communities.

What exactly DO you think being Muslim means?

you seem happy to paint whole swathes of the human race as evil. Racism/xenophobia/Islam a phobia do make me angry. Utterly depressing in every way

You aren’t arguing with me. You are arguing with a strawman. I have not painted a whole swathe of humanity as ‘evil’. I have simply pointed out that misogyny is rife in the MENA as I have experienced it.

It is not an intrinsic quality, but one that can, of course, be overcome with awareness, education and legal protections. But there has to be a commitment to doing so by both society and regional authorities, and there is frankly a lot of work to do.

Oh God the “straw man”.

Does anyone think that SOME Muslim men aren’t a threat? confused
Asian and Muslim used interchangeably on a thread about asylum seekers predominantly from the Middle East and North Africa is fairly WILFULLY ignorant.

I used the two discriptors as when I was a teenager, I only knew that men of Asian origin were a potential threat to me. It was only as I've got older that I've learnt those men predominantly come from Muslim countries, where attitudes towards young women can be different to ours.

What exactly DO you think being Muslim means?

As a 13 year old, it meant nothing to me. As I said I didn't know these men were Muslim, I didn't know what Muslim was. As an adult I know that coming from a Muslim country can mean the men have been taught a set of values that white women are lesser and of loose morals, and that women not in the guardianship of a man are fair game for sexual advances.

I'm not saying that all Muslim men believe that, or are a threat to women. But I and many other young girls have the lived experience that men that come from Muslim countries can be a threat, and this appears to be due to a different set of values.

So I don't think it's racist or xenaphobic for a PP to post concerns with vast numbers of young men coming to this country completly unchecked.

Ahh my experience is pretty much the exact opposite.
I DO think it’s racist/xenophobic/anti-Islamic (as your attitudes are EXACTLY what those words mean)

How awful, I feel ashamed for even starting this discussion. The racism is terrible.

@randomer

How awful, I feel ashamed for even starting this discussion. The racism is terrible.

And the ignorance worse ...

People have very strong views on these topics but it is good if we can all talk to each other. Clearly it is provably wrong that all cultures are the same or equal. Some are incredibly sexist as are some religions (including fundamentalist Christianity in some of its forms).

We have 16m people more in the UK than when I was born and I would rather we worked back to having 16m fewer whether they all share my culture or not. If we could ensure there were one new person from abroad in each village rather than people being all in one place it might feel easier for the original inhabitants although I accept newcomers have always concentrated initially in one area - China Town in London, Stamford Hill, etc

Like most people in the UK I am not racist. Wanting 16m fewer people here regardless of colour is not a racism issue at all and nor is quoting facts about some countries - everyone knows Egypt has a major problem over how women are treated.

We have 16m people more in the UK than when I was born and I would rather we worked back to having 16m fewer whether they all share my culture or not.

So how do you propose sending 16m people back to somewhere ?

Lucky dip ?

Odd and even birthdays ?

You are the person that wants to "go back", so tell us how. How do you go back to 16m fewer people in the UK ? And over what timescale ? A night ? A week ? A month ? A year ? A decade ? A century ?

Who will be drowned and who will be saved ?

Like most people in the UK I am not racist.

Say waist now?

Sorry, “what” even my fingers are dazzled by that sentence.

While we’re reshuffling the population shall we retrieve these guys?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_diaspora

[quote Itisbetter]While we’re reshuffling the population shall we retrieve these guys?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_diaspora[/quote]
If we are reshuffling, I can thing of a lot of Tommy Robinsons I'd deport and a lot of people settled from all over the world I'd keep. Starting with the lovely doctor that helped DW through pregnancy with DS, through to the entire team that assessed and operated on DW to fit her pump to control her leg spasms (due to MS). All of them immigrants.

This is being discussed on radio 2

Now

English is so widely spoken I don't blame them for coming here. In China and India I always had people practicing their English speaking to me.