Shamima begum allowed to return to UK

[mummabear1967]

Surely I’ve got this wrong? She’s actually allowed back to the UK after joining a terrorist group abroad?

Anyone just a tiny bit worried about what might happen if she does return?

@FrenchtoEnglish don’t you dare speak to me like that

All this “she was a child” - when I was 15 I started work full time in an office in the centre of London, travelling by tube every day. I also got a job working in a central London department store on Saturdays. I was paid a monthly salary, had a current account with a cheque book, paid board to my parents, bought my own clothes etc. I behaved and was treated as an adult. And I definitely knew right from wrong.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion he is dead now, thank god.

That’s not the point - could have been prevented if he wasn’t in the UK

I think if she does come here. She will be beaten up and attacked a lot by other people.
I'm always the kind of person who believes in second chances. But I am muslim and I hate ISIS with all my heart. So I really feel distressed by what she has done. She joined a terrorist group that goes against the Morales of any religion. I'm sad she lost her baby and the horrendous choices she made. But you also have to deal with the consequences.

@Supersimkin2
I thought only two children died 'accidentally'.
Oh well that's ok then

She didn't inflict horror, she lived as a housewife and mother. As I said upthread, once in ISIS territory there was no chance to leave. Her third child might not have died had she been brought home. That baby was innocent.

@Cosmosgrowinmygarden you have had an excellent start in life. You should be really pleased with yourself and I hope you are doing well now too. God bless

All this “she was a child” - when I was 15 I started work full time in an office in the centre of London, travelling by tube every day. I also got a job working in a central London department store on Saturdays. I was paid a monthly salary, had a current account with a cheque book, paid board to my parents, bought my own clothes etc. I behaved and was treated as an adult. And I definitely knew right from wrong.

What relevance does your personal circumstances, have to this person's personal circumstances?

Victim or not the UK produced this person. Why should a much poorer, war-torn country have to deal with her? It’s embarrassing that the UK is attempting to make her Syria or Bangladesh’s problem.

*he is dead now, thank god.

That’s not the point - could have been prevented if he wasn’t in the UK*

But he was in the UK, and was in the UK until his death. There are also plenty of suspected terrorists, or "people of interest" living freely in the UK who probably pose more of a threat, than this wan will when she returns. She will be under strict surveillance, probably kept in custody, and probably away from other prisoners.

This sums it up for me

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

All this “she was a child” - when I was 15 I started work full time in an office in the centre of London, travelling by tube every day. I also got a job working in a central London department store on Saturdays. I was paid a monthly salary, had a current account with a cheque book, paid board to my parents, bought my own clothes etc. I behaved and was treated as an adult. And I definitely knew right from wrong.

What relevance does your personal circumstances, have to this person's personal circumstances?

The point I was trying to make was that 15 year olds are not innocent children.

@mnhq - quoting isn’t working.

But you also have to deal with the consequences.

And she will. She will face trial in the country she is a citizen in. Very unlikely she is going to be brought home, released and left to live a normal life.

If we can accept that white British teens can be groomed by Asian gangs, abused and prostituted, it can't be hard to accept that teens of any colours can be groomed by extremists.

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. I am very, very glad that she can come back, I am just saddened that it is too late for her poor children.

I cannot imagine her mental state and the years of psychological support she is going to need to help her.

The point I was trying to make was that 15 year olds are not innocent children.

In the eyes of the law, a 15 year old is a child, regardless of what you were doing at 15, you were legally a child.

She should be held in custody awaiting trial and deported if found guilty.

@Cosmosgrowinmygarden
You sound like you were very mature for your age. But you were still a child according to the law, which has designated 18 as the age of maturity. If people want to campaign to lower that age they can, but it would have an impact on child sexual abuse. We cannot pick and choose which age for which crimes.

Ever wondered why there aren't more returning Isis fighters?

Begum dodged being executed by Isis, who would have taken her head off on sight. They did a very good job of murdering their own supporters.

Say what you like, Isis has saved the taxpayer a fortune. The UK can afford one gaol cell.

No idea how all three children died. Presumably no investigation? Best not, I bet Begum's not pushing for it.

@ifoundafoxcaughtbydogs

By removing her citizenship she was made stateless - which is illegal.

As soon as we start to ignore the law because it's 'a bad person' it becomes very dangerous. What if the next person we ignore the legal rules about is a bit less bad, then a bit less.

I find the idea of living in a society where a government, already showing themselves to be corrupt, get to decide when and when not apply the law far more frightening than having her back here and dealt with through the proper process.

This. Absolutely. The government left her stateless. Disgusting. Frightening. Especially due to her age - she was only a child when she left the country.

And for anyone claiming she is has Bangladeshi citizenship. No. She. Doesn’t.

That was a ruse cooked up by this government, who acted like a colonial power. Send her to a Victorian Gaol maybe....

@lifeafter50

She should be held in custody awaiting trial and deported if found guilty.

Deported where? Shes a British citizen.

I wish nothing but a life of misery for this vile creature

@lifeafter50
Deported where?

How can you compare children groomed for sex with this?? Utterly ridiculous

Grooming is grooming, whatever the desired result. Whether it is grooming for sex or grooming for terrorism. This girl was groomed for both.

Grooming is a form of brainwashing. A groomed person can essentially be used to do whatever the groomer wants. The children groomed by sexual exploitation gangs could be used for terrorist acts. The tactics, the control, coercion, the abuse. It's the same. It is systematic child psychological abuse.

She is an abused child. We failed to protect when she left, we failed to protect when we found out where she was and by removing her citizenship we are just sealing the deal.

The point I was trying to make was that 15 year olds are not innocent children.

It's not black and white though and children are not clones. When I was a teenager/young adult I was very mature for my age in many ways. I was also not the person I am now though as a fully mature and worldly-wise adult. I knew right from wrong at a very early age as I believe most of us do. I didn't perhaps have the same understanding of consequences though as a fully developed adult.

This is not about whether what she did was right or wrong or whether she is guilty or innocent. This is about whether the government had the legal right to remove her citizenship and whether full legal process was followed when they did so. If she wins her legal challenge and has her citizenship reinstated it does not follow that she is innocent of any crime. She can, and probably will, go on to stand trial for those offences she stands accused of.

.

Britain failed to protect SB as a child. And now some people want to punish the victim of a grooming gang?

Has she committed a crime?

The facts don't care about your feelings.

This is mostly about international law.

And she's a British citizen. Which makes her our responsibility.