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Electric Cars - Am I The Only One Having Reservations?

215 replies

MysticMeghan · 05/02/2020 10:27

The news is full of stories about electric cars, how marvellous they are for the environment and how wonderful it's going to be when we all have them. But as someone of modest means, I can't help wondering if this is going to be something that is embraced by the wealthy and those of us who can't afford to shell out £30,000 for a new car are going to be left behind.

I know there is car leasing, but you have to be able to be loan worthy to qualify for that. If you are on UC or working a part time minimum wage and you NEED a car to get to work because you live in a rural area or work unsocial hours, what are you going to do? There's not going to be much of a market in 2nd hand electric vehicles, so buying an old banger for £500 (or cheaper) to get around isn't going to be an option anymore.

The other thing that occurred to me was charging. I live in a street of terraced houses where we fight to park outside our own house because there are no driveways. We all park on the same side of the street to let fire engines and buses get by. Even with occasional charging, there are still going to be electric cables trailing across pavements. What about people across the road? How do they charge from home? Trail their cable across the road? What about blind people or wheelchair users trying to get along pavements? The estate is just streets and streets of tightly packed houses built in the 1950s. There is simply nowhere to install public charging points even if we wanted to.

At my work, we have 250 spaces for about 500 staff. People who arrive late have to park on the street. We currently have about 8 electric charging points for which there is fierce competition and already loads of problems getting people to move mid morning so that others can get in and charge because there is simply nowhere for people who move their vehicles to actually go. I have no doubt our employer would pay to convert the entire car park, but it needs to be at least double to size to allow everyone to charge. We are on an industrial estate with lots of parking restrictions. I realise that the simple answer to this is public transport, but for me to get to work by public transport in time for a 6am start simply isn't going to happen because the buses and trains for those distances don't exist at that hour of the morning. I work in Edinburgh but live in a different region (county) because I just can't afford Edinburgh house prices.

DH works in a rural area where there is ONE public charging point shared between about 17 villages. He has to commute further than the the range of a current electric vehicle and he uses tools and is an only able to work during daylight hours, so parking miles away and walking a cement mixer up the street just isn't practical. Assuming technology could improve to the extent that the range of vehicles could be increased and he could find on street charging near to where he is working, there's still going to be large sections of the day when he is likely to be hanging around waiting to charge a vehicle where he isn't actually earning.

The government are actually REMOVING the subsidy for purchasing electric vehicles in March so there doesn't seem to be much joined up thinking going on. And whilst I'm sure that electric vehicles are going to be a real boon in cities, I can't help thinking that in rural areas, where people NEED cars and there isn't even a proper mobile phone network or even mains gas in some places, people are really going to struggle. Where DH works the area earns most of its revenue from tourism, with people driving considerable distances but then just mainly staying for the day. Are they REALLY going to put in 40/50 charging points in a remote fishing village? Or will people have to beg the use of someone's private supply so they can drive home?

I recently read an article where an electric car user admitted that driving to visit his in-laws in Norfolk was quite inconvenient because he had to stop and charge about 5 times (and no doubt stay overnight somewhere as well). But he said as he only does that once a year he can live with it. What if you have to drive considerable distances every day or every week to look after sick relatives? There is this assumption that everyone lives identical lives with at most a 15 mile commute. That nobody really drives long distances very often. That's not my reality at all.

I know by the time all this happens, cars will have a better range and need less charging, but whereas you can easily integrate electric cars into a fairly modern country like Norway, this is Britain with our creaking Victorian and post war infrastructure and short of turning the country into one huge car park how is this going to work? Even in Norway they had problems. Affluent city dwellers with great public transport links embraced the changes. The rural poor have had to radically re-think their lifestyles, with less opportunity to travel, work and socialise they are more or less stuck in areas with very few facilities.

Please tell me there is someone else out there who thinks this 2035 ban is just a load of swank and the government are going to have to massively back track as the deadline gets closer?

PS If you are a Hybrid user I bet you are mad already!

OP posts:
picklesdragonisawelshdragon · 10/02/2020 19:56

Mystic, I totally get that! I meant most people in houses with drives will get them, which I think a pp said was 66%. That means that public chargers won't be full of their cars, leaving them more accessible for people who can't charge at home.

Uber drivers will be driving electric, if we don't have autonomous by then.

In fifteen years there will be old EV cars for sale second hand.

Megan2018 · 10/02/2020 20:04

@picklesdragonisawelshdragon there are plenty of used electric cars for sale now!

picklesdragonisawelshdragon · 10/02/2020 20:05

Exactly Megan- my phev was second hand. In 15 years there will be lots of them, many of them older and cheaper.

poshme · 10/02/2020 23:05

So many comments from urban people!

Talking about using more public transport and it being a viable option if cars are phased out. My nearest bus stop is several miles away- and they're never going to provide a service that comes close to my house.

Cable tv? Nope
Mains gas? Nope
Internet above 0.5mbps? Nope
Regular public transport? Never going to happen. (Nor are the 3 above either!)

My concern is how do we generate enough electricity for all these cars? And they're going to have to improve battery life if anyone is going to be able to tow anything.

Ariela · 10/02/2020 23:27

@poshme

I so agree! However it's not just the very rural, anyone on the outskirts is also ignored. My friend lives on the edge of suburbia, 500m from a big housing estate one side of her road, and the same for another one just as large the other side of the road, but is in the wrong parish & postcode, so doesn't have cable, superfast broadband, gas (not that she wants it as she has solar & will be getting ground source heating when they extend) , mains sewage, and is a 20 minute walk in any direction to nearest bus (well over a mile of no pavement in two directions, there is pavement in the 3rd after 500m), shop and post office. Even 4g doesn't reach her house (surrounded by trees and in a dip)!

MooseBeTimeForSummer · 10/02/2020 23:57

I’d be interested in any stats regarding a reduction in battery performance in the cold. It’s due to be -32c here tomorrow.

People don’t drive 400km non-stop? They do here! That’s where the nearest major shopping is. I know folks who do a round trip in one day just to go to Costco!

I can get to the next city without stopping for gas. There are lots of “rest stops” along the way - chemical toilets. Literally a shed in a lay-by in the middle of nowhere. Not the sort of place I’d want to stop and charge.

DGRossetti · 11/02/2020 06:48

So many comments from urban people!

People don’t drive 400km non-stop? They do here!

The biggest disincentive on innovation is "It's all about me". I used to end presentations with it Grin Even 15 years ago, a lot of people were explaining why they'd never need a mobile, or a computer ...

picklesdragonisawelshdragon · 11/02/2020 07:44

If it's -30c and 400km to Costco, you are unlikely to be hugely affected by a Boris Boast.

olivehater · 11/02/2020 08:25

Good point about the lack of driveways. Maybe it will force new laws on house planning regulations. One can only hope.

KittenVsBox · 11/02/2020 08:30

Not just rural.
I'm total suburbia. Walking distance to supermarket, 4 primary schools, secondary school, library, leisure centre (walking, as in less than 15 mins - well under a mile).
DH has just been asked to submit public transport times to his workplace, to be there for 8.30am, in anticipation of local parking restrictions. He would need to leave at 9pm the night before. My old work place was 3 miles from the nearest busstop - and that walk involved crossing the duel carriageway. Ok, mine was remote, but DH works in the next city. Public transport just doesn't work for everyone.

DGRossetti · 11/02/2020 08:44

Maybe it will force new laws on house planning regulations

The overall trend of the past 30 years has been to do everything possible to discourage private motoring. And with a nice healthy stock of houses priced at £x without sufficient parking, there isn't a government in the country that is going to allow those house prices to be depressed by more modern houses having more parking. And that's before you factor in housebuilders greed at squeezing the maximum profit out of minimum land.

There's also the generational problem of families needing more parking for still-at-home adult children.

Public transport just doesn't work for everyone.

That's a shame, since (looks at todays headlines) that's where all the money is going to go.

Mistymonday · 11/02/2020 09:07

We’ve got an EV, it’s great. It was second hand. Its got 230 range, we’ve driven it all the way to the Netherlands with a quick top up charge whilst waiting at the Eurotunnel terminal and a 30min charge in Belgium whilst we had a cup of tea in a nice hotel (which we’d do anyway). Easiest thing ever and far cheaper to run, very little servicing needed. Plug it in when we get home, charges overnight. Even before we had our own charger, you just plug it in whilst in the multi-storey car park, at the supermarket, wherever you are - even at National Trust properties. Easier than petrol tbh. Great to drive. We love it and never going back!

Caspianberg · 11/02/2020 09:41

I live rural, Off-road, - Freezing temps in winter. There's still loads of Electric vehicles already around us. Still nobody drives 400km in one go without stopping. You must live in a place where nobody needs to pee, gets tired legs, or tired after 3-4 hrs driving so should stop for the safety of others. For the average human, people stop after 2.5-3hrs driving for various reasons.

KittenVsBox · 11/02/2020 09:47

I'd be quite happy to have functional, local, public transport. HS2 or the new bridge wont come near enough to me to make a difference (over 100 miles).
Just looked up a map. We have two charging station locations in our town according to zap-map. Thats not going to go far between 20,000 people!

TheABC · 11/02/2020 11:32

The tories privatised the bus system in the 1980s which meant companies could cherry-pick the profitable routes and ignore the rest.
Only London avoided the wholesale massacre, mostly because they could dictate routes, fares and services levels and the services were tendered out.

It's always beggared belief that the Government wants universal postal and broadband service, but won't do the same for transport.

I would expect that to change in the coming years. HS2 is an (expensive) placebo that won't cure the everyday commute.

DGRossetti · 11/02/2020 11:36

It's always beggared belief that the Government wants universal postal and broadband service, but won't do the same for transport.

I don't believe for one second the government "wants" universal postal or broadband services, and as soon as it's possible, they'd go as well.

TheHagOnTheHill · 11/02/2020 12:35

The nearest charging point to me is 20 miles away and not on any route I'd use.
There are not many in the main city though some supermarkets may have them but I've not noticed.
As to the battery cost.How often can you return an old battery eventually your car wouldn't be able to get a new battery,after 6years they'll be different to make you buy a new car.

TheHagOnTheHill · 11/02/2020 12:36

Refirb. not return

Ariela · 11/02/2020 12:36

There is universal post - RM has to deliver to every address, but no obligation for BT or anyone to supply working broadband to every address/mobile -phone to every location.

DGRossetti · 11/02/2020 13:12

but no obligation for BT or anyone to supply working broadband to every address/mobile -phone to every location.

There is:

www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/delivering-broadband-universal-service

TheABC · 11/02/2020 13:34

@DGRossetti, good point.

I still have the touching belief that someone, somewhere in Government believes in public service.

DGRossetti · 11/02/2020 13:42

I still have the touching belief that someone, somewhere in Government believes in public service.

Oh, I am sure that plenty do.

Believe in it, that is. Believing is easy - just look at churches.

Whether any believers are actually willing to fund such things is a completely different matter.

Isanameoptional · 11/02/2020 13:45

One thing I was wondering the other day was whether there will be more people run over when electric cars are more common as they are so quiet.

Although we try and teach our kids to look before crossing, you see many people step out and then quickly step back because they've heard a car approaching.

picklesdragonisawelshdragon · 11/02/2020 14:09

"whether there will be more people run over when electric cars are more common as they are so quiet."

Most of them now have various features built in- anti collision stuff. I think they're safer.

It is quiet, people are often startled in car parks. But we crawl round car parks anyway so it's not a problem. And we have the 'add on sound' feature to make sure we are a bit noisy.

BertieBotts · 11/02/2020 14:28

You can't (easily) top up your car with fuel at home, and that doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone.

As more people use electric cars, more charging points will pop up so availability will improve.

I've only lived in one house (flat) where we've had a car park which is the current one, so this is not at all a case of me not understanding how people live. The whole point of having a car is to drive it to places - therefore, if people can't charge at home, they can charge while they are out. I don't think it's likely that electric cars in the future will need charging every night.

I don't see the argument about them not being available second hand cheaply - why not? And besides petrol/diesel cars will be available seond hand cheaply for a long time yet to fill the gap where electric cars are still too new to be cheap.

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