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Why the Madeleine critics make me mad

336 replies

mumofteens · 18/08/2007 16:30

It makes me mad to still be hearing pompous, judgemental, illogical people criticising the parents of Madeleine about their decision to eat nearby while the children were in the room, and even going so far as to say that social services should be involved.

Here's why. If you have ever been to a Mark Warner resort you will know that there is (or used to be) a baby sitting service available whereby a nanny walks around the floors of the hotel while you dine in the restaurant somewhere else in the hotel. We have used this ourselves. Now, if someone was determined to abduct a child, they could walk into the hotel and take a child from the unlocked room while the nanny is walking on other floors, or is inside a room comforting a crying child. Like most hotels, people come and go without reception turning a hair. Security is usually incredibly lax in hotels and no-one knows who is staying there, who has come in just for a meal or drink and who is a friend of guests. Equally, someone could let themselves in/out of a downstairs window or back entrance if they did not want to walk past reception.

Are the critics suggesting that all the parents who have used such services should have their children taken away by social services?

Ditto with the baby listening services that people use in hotels when reception listen in for crying babies. A person of criminal intent could let themselves into the room, (assuming it had been left unlocked due to a fear of fire) and abduct a child.

You could be asleep in you house and someone could break in and take a baby/child while you were asleep. You could be sitting in the garden while you child was asleep in the house and the same thing could happen. Equally, in my experience, schools and hospitals are often extraordinarily lax about security with people coming and going. One of my daughters had to spend quite a bit of time in hospital and the staff were incredibly laissez-faire about security with hoards of people traipsing in and out of the ward day and night. Someone could easily have taken my child while I nipped off to the loo.

You could watch your child 24 hours a day and something bad could happen - a wierdo could grab them and hurt them etc. Someone was attacked in the park by a wierdo recently - if that had been a child, would the parents have been deemed neligent for allowing their children to walk (with them) in the park?

The point is - if someone is determined to snatch a baby/child, or do something horrible they will find a way to do it.

In terms of risk assessment, the most dangerous place for your child to be is near the road. Yet we all happily put our children in cars every day. Every single week children are killed in cars on the roads, driven by law-abiding, caring parents.

There is also a danger associated with babysitters. We used one for a stage who came highly recommended (she was a nanny at the creche at the prestigious Harbour Club in Chelsea). In fact, she was a criminal with a huge history of stealing. Another friend used one who again came with glowing references but who was in fact a serious drug-addict. I would rather have my children on their own in the house than locked up in a house with a drug addict/criminal.

There is also a danger of putting a child in a creche. One of mine was once badly attacked by another child and could have lost her eye. This would not have happened if she had not been in the creche.

See what I mean? There are risks associated with every single thing we do/don't do. In the context of the big bad world, the possibility of accidents and the reality that not all people looking after children are necessarily very responsible (and that other children can cause accidents), having the children sleeping nearby on their own might have seemed like the lesser of a number of evils.

Having said all that, I do not want to scare people. I do not think that there are bogeymen around every corner. We give our children quite a bit of freedom and do not worry. The main thing I worry about is road accidents as statistically this is by far the most dangerous place to be.

OP posts:
ScottishMummy · 21/08/2007 16:00

o behave i regularly like to have a glass or two of wine afte a bloody hard day slogging it out at work...boozing i love it

ScottishMummy · 21/08/2007 16:02

HurlyBurly thanks for clarification

Rhubarb · 21/08/2007 16:03

whilst the parents were boozing? What evidence do you have for this? They go for a meal with friends and you assume they were boozing? How judgemental you are!

And I wasn't talking about the African woman, there was another case about the same time, mother and her boyfriend beat the little girl up. SS were informed.

I agree, why should they apologise? When I left my kids in a hotel room with the baby alarm whilst I went "boozing" in the bar with my dh I wouldn't have apologised if anything had gone wrong! It's like saying "we are really sorry our little girl has been abducted and probably brutually murdered, we are sorry that your newspapers and tv screens are full of it, we are sorry you feel disgusted with us, etc etc"

Like I said, we all make mistakes. But by God, I would never like to be judged by you lot!

ScottishMummy · 21/08/2007 16:05

agree some people have very big MN halo to polish whilst us mere mortals are boozing i unaploogetically come home after a stressful day on the ward and love to booze...o jacobs ^creek calling my name

stramash · 21/08/2007 16:42

I was reading a review on Tripadvisor ( or similar , can't remember exactly) about a small hotel abroad which is recommended on MN Best.

The reviewer was unhappy because they were asked to leave their children sleeping in an unlocked room ( no rooms in the hotel had locks apparently) in a separate building whilst they had dinner in a separate part of the hotel with all the other adults. No kids were allowed at dinner- they were fed at high tea earlier.

This was post MM ( July 07) & the person posting the review was understandably pretty anxious about the whole thing. It was one review & hence not objective but made me think nonetheless. If everybody else around you deems something to be acceptable, peer pressure can make you do things you wouldn't normally do. I wonder how many other parents at MW used a similar checking routine to the McCanns?

DH and I had been planning a holiday to this particular hotel next year - we've now decided against it.

lucyellensmum · 21/08/2007 16:52

oh for fucks sake !!!

wannaBe · 21/08/2007 17:27

Haven?t read whole thread but?

I think that people have seen fit to criticise this family?s actions because of the way they have been reported. ?Madeleine was snatched from her family?s apartment while her parents dined nearby.?, or words to that effect. To many, the thought of leaving three small children alone in an apartment while you go out for dinner is totally unacceptable. I don?t know anyone who would leave the kids at home in their house while they went to the pub for a meal, (I have a pub 5 minutes up the road so would be easy to come back and check at half hour intervals), so why does it suddenly become acceptable to do it in a holiday resort in a foreign country where the children have access to a main road and a swimming pool?

If Madeleine had been left at home alone in Leicester and something had happened, ie there was a fire/she had gone missing/met with an accident, social services would have become involved, I am 100% certain of that. And the news coverage would have been vastly different.

While I do think that labelling the Mccanns as child abusers is harsh, I think that if they were to admit that their actions were wrong they would receive a more sympathetic response from those who are still horrified at their actions. But instead they have never said that leaving the children was wrong, which begs the question.. did they leave the children at home alone too?

turquoisenights · 21/08/2007 18:39

once, recently, maybe in last 3 weeks, Kate Mccann said at a tv interview that 'they made a mistake, and they will live with it forever'.

totaleclipse · 21/08/2007 18:41

Yes, Kate McCann has said she is desperately sorry

aloha · 21/08/2007 18:43

People DO take risks on holiday and just don't see that they are doing so. It's the holiday spirit feeling. I've interviewed the grieving parents of sensible, intelligent young women who went walking alone on deserted beaches at midnight and got raped and murdered. 99.9% of women who do this rather ill-advised thing, come home and have a lovely memory. .1% never come home.

turquoisenights · 21/08/2007 18:44

i saw them last night in my dream.
Kate Mccann was holding a baby, and i think/hope/wish this means a good news.
i pray for missing children/people every night starting 4 months ago.

donnie · 21/08/2007 18:45

stramash - what hotel would have rooms with no locks on their doors? sorry but this sounds like crap to me.

paulaplumpbottom · 21/08/2007 19:09

TherWhat is it that people want them yto do? Wear sackcloth and tear out their hair? There is nothing worse than what has happened to them. They made a mistake, it can't be undone

kookaburra · 21/08/2007 19:21

Actually there is worse than what happened to them - what happened to Madeleine is immeasurably worse. They won't be prosecuted for neglect, or investigated by social services because they now have a million pounds to spend on lawyers. poor Madeleine desrerved to be better looked after.

tazmosis · 21/08/2007 19:55

Bloody hell - leave those poor people alone. Who are you to sit in judgment? Have you never made a wrong decision or a mistake? I am sure you have, as have most of us - fortunately though most mistakes don't have such awful consequences.

Why don't you all get on with your own lives - if you've nothing nice to say then you should say nothing at all.

ELF1981 · 21/08/2007 19:59

Aloha, you post on Tue 21-Aug-07 18:43:01 is what I have been trying to get at, that I hope that one thing that comes out of this is people take a step back and think when they are on holiday, parents and non parents.

FioFio · 21/08/2007 20:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

stramash · 21/08/2007 20:17

Donnie - it's a large villa with 20 or so rooms (& annexe ) which runs as a sort of large "house party". From what I understand , all the adults eat together at one big table at 8pm.
I've looked again at the review I was talking about and it definitely talks of no keys. I have to say that, unusually for Trip Advisor, the other reviews of this place are absolutely glowing ( as are the MN ones).
The website looks fabulous also - lots of freedom for the kids to meet other children and roam free in the grounds.

My point is that we were about to go ahead and book it without really thinking about the specifics. My dds are 4 and 2 ( and not great sleepers) . What were we going to do with them while we were having dinner? Would we now be happy to leave them in a unlocked ( or even locked) room out of earshot? Probably not. But we just looked at the website and thought "fantastic, child friendly" and didn't really engage our brains.

I think we will go when the dds are older as it looks lovely. My point was not a criticism about this specific villa . More that "child friendly" places with adult only evening meals are not necessarily that "child friendly" after all. Also that the person who wrote this review ( who may be a Trip advisor troll, I have no idea ) obviously although not happy to do , felt she just had to get on with it & leave her kids in an unlocked room in a different building ( or go hungry) because everybody else was doing the same.

Bubble99 · 21/08/2007 20:33

I think what's irking people are the:

'Like eating in the garden'
'Apartment door was in view'
'It could happen to anyone'
'Locked apartment'

Statements. Whether from the McCanns or the media

All of which are patently untrue.

BUT.

If my child falls over and hurts himself in a safe, child-proofed garden, I will always have a moment or two of irrational guilt. Even though there would have been nothing I could do to prevent it.

If that is how I've felt over a bump to the head or a cut knee. Imagine (actually, I don't want to) how the McCanns must be feeling, knowing that their daughter's fate was preventable.

I really do think that the statements above are their way of dealing with this. People do not react rationally to grief and I also think that the 'McCann Tour' was their way of feeling that they were doing something.

When my brother was killed my mum started ironing. That was the first thing she did and she hates ironing. She ironed and ironed until we switched the iron off and, very gently, took it from her hands.

Bambiraptor · 21/08/2007 20:49

Why does it irk people? Surely they have been punished enough.

The ONLY person to blame in this case is the person who took Madeleine.

It is utterly unbeleiveable to me that people can be so mean spirited to total strangers who are going through a parents worst nightmare. What has it got to do with you? Why do you feel the need to comment so nastily on a mistake that has been dearly paid for?

Bubble99 · 21/08/2007 20:58

I think, Bambi, that a lot of the McCanns' words and actions after the event have been their way of dealing with what has happened.

They have been criticised for 'touring' Europe and N. Africa but, as I've just posted, I saw this as the actions of parents who wanted to do something positive, rather than feeling helpless.

No stones being cast by me, BTW.

Bambiraptor · 22/08/2007 12:24

I agree Bubble, and my first post wasn't meant to you.
I just don't know what people think they are going to acheive by blaming the distraught parents who are the victims of a crime.

Upwind · 22/08/2007 13:20

On holidays, my DH had to rescue a toddler out of the hotel pool. He saw her fall in and just go straight to the bottom, he jumped in after her and fished her out. The parents were sitting back on sun loungers and oblivious. That is not unusual on holidays people unwind and forget about dangers that should be obvious. If nobody had noticed the little girl falling into the pool she would have died and her parents would no doubt have been distraught - would there be so many people condemning them I wonder?

mustsleep · 22/08/2007 14:03

me and dh went on hols to magaluf about 5 yrs ago and were visiting a friends hotel, when we got there there was a big commmotion around the pool - a little boy about 5 yrs had fallen into the pool and presumable bumped his head and had been under the water under the bridge that went over the pool so nonone had noticed - unfortunately he died was v distressing - mum was frantic obviousley

we went on our first hols with kids this year and becuase of witnessing that could not and would not take my eyes off either child - although it can happen so easily

haychee · 22/08/2007 14:13

Dont agree with what mccanns did that night nor disagree but,

just the other day we were at out local park and dd1 befriended another little girl. Thay played well for some time and i noticed that this girl was alone ie, no parent or carer around. I asked her if she was on her own and she said yes. dd1 was asking if chantelle (this girl she had made friends with) could come back to our hoise to play. I had to say no of course as there was no parent to ask. Upon further questioning i discovered the road she lives in and is a good 10minute walk from the park accross roads and past a small wooded area.

What is wrong with some parents? Who on earth would let a 6yr old walk out to the park alone? In light of recent events?
Risk assessment and all that.

I keep thinking of Chantelle (we have seen her since that day and she has been wandering around the estate on her own), what shpuld i have done? Took her back to her house to make sure she got home safely or reported it to someone maybe police?

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