DNA from bottle in Belgium, does not match Madeleine

[Wolfgirl]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/08/wmaddy208.xml

shame

My point exactly wannabe but more clearly explained (Oh no am getting sucked back in again.....)

OK. Sympathy with the parents as opposed to sympathy with a line of argument. That I can understand. But that is not how people have expressed it...

Wannabe - your posts are the sane ones, well said.

I never said i have no sympathy for the parents and i am not heartless in any way. I have sympathy they have lost their child and will probably never see her again but i have no smpathy for them in that its their fault they left her alone and helpless and without an adult to supervise her. They could have got a childminder but didnt go to the bother of that. What other way can it be put. That is the reality of it.

It clearly is a complex issue in that you are experiencing two directly opposing emotions at the same time.

I have never really got the treatment of sympathy as a 'gift' or a 'thing' to either give to someone or not. For me it is an emotion and I either experience it or I don't. Whether I feel sympathy will be affected by my own sense of morals ( ie can't get upset at suicide bombers who deliberately set out to kill others) but I either feel it or I don't. And I can't feel something and not feel it at the same time.

So my sympathy for the parents of a missing child exists and is not affected by any judgement I may have about their behaviour. I could even I think feel angry at someone for their behaviour and still sympathise. But sympathy and no sympathy? No, I can't do that. Perhaps I am one dimensional

What I don't understand is why if these people think they have a credible sighting that they don't just sidle up close and look into the little girl's eyes. The proof is there, then get on the phone to the police. As for blood on the wall it could be from absolutely anybody and no-one has ever reported a blood stained bed etc. The parents made a huge error of judgement leaving their patio door ajar, did the other parents in their group do that as well? We have done loads of MW holidays but the doors have been double locked to prevent the children getting out. I'm not sure if a MW baby listening service would have been much different except for the fact that the rooms are checked every 15 mins. At the Ocean club this wasn't offered. The baby sitting option was there and the McCann's must so wish that they had used it. Life is great in hindsight. As the 100th day approaches I pray that little Madeleine will be found and that the witch hunters and "holier than thoe's" will leave them alone and offer support for them instead in what is every parents nightmare.

You have absolutely NO IDEA if they told the truth or not. Who says they said the shutters were 'forced'? This is just nasty speculation.
No, I would never, ever have left my children in an unlocked ground floor apartment and gone for dinner. Never. I find it incomprehensible. But I still feel desperately sorry for a little girl and for her clearly grieving parents. It may have been a catastrophic misjudgement, but what has happened to them has been punishment enough, surely?

If it was me and husband (and the group of our friends on holiday) we would want to be questioned and interrogated constantly until we were excluded from the enquiry.

Child abduction/child murder by a stranger is EXCEPTIONALLY rare - overwhelmingly likely to be a relation (same with domestic violence).

That's why if I was a parent of an abducted child I would take no offence at all and would encourage all questions/all dna testing/lie detector tests/hypnosis (in case I recalled something in my lapsed coonsciousness I'd 'forgotten').

I do not think the papers are being cruel at all - I think all questions are necessary.

I just wouldn't take offence.

LFC - totally agree - and would have thought the police would have started from that premise rather than coming to it three? four? month later? sounds like there were several kids in the party left alone at night, every night,so surely the focus would initially be on the parents then only when they were eliminated ripple outwards via friends to strangers?

Well, obviously domestic violence is committed by the partner of the victim - that is what the term 'domestic violence' means!
As for child murder by a stranger being rare, yes, it is less common, but less rare than the murder of a child on holiday with its married, normal parents, frankly. Particularly with parents who have seemingly murdered their own much-loved daughter while at the same time having a meal with friends. Then managing to dispose of her body entirely while with those same friends and raising the alarm about her disappearance. I think people want her parents to be responsible for their own sick reasons.

Agree, aloha. People want to be able to blame the parents to convince themselves it could never happen to them. Hence the harsh criticism, that somehow it must be the parents at fault, rather than some sicko (I really hope not).

Everyone knows, whether they are prepared to admit it or not, that as parents, we can never police our children 24 hours a day and ... we can never claim not to have made mistakes.

I don't think anyone is ever going to know the real truth of what happened that night, unfortunately.

It's going to go the way of JonBenet Ramsay and that poor lady is going to wind up the British version of John Walsh.

Everyone keeps saying- 90% of kids who aremurdered, its by a close relation

That also means 10% of them are killed by someone else!

They tried for 5 years, apparently, to get pg & then had IVF to get Maddie.

I also can't get it into my head that someone went into the apartment, killed her (without waking or touching the other dch) and carried her out, dead. A bit weird. As I say, I can't get my head around that one.

I do not think/not think the parents are involved. I only said if it was ME and my family i would want to be questioned to rule us all out.

I make no comments or judgment on them or their hell they are going through.

And I would not want it to be them because I could not comprehend a stranger doing it - I'm merely saying its statistically less likely.

I can only talk about if it were me and my friends as I'm not them, not party to the information the police have. I refuse to speculate on what may or may not have happened because I 'KNOW' nothing.

I pray for them every day and it does not matter a jot to me if they were involved or someone they know was involved.

I remember a young dad getting up in the night feed his baby and falling asleep and suffocating him Even though it was his 'responsibility' I felt nothing but compassion for him and prayed really really hard for him.

I wish there was some sort of closure for the parents hopefully the closure is that Maddie is found alive. But to go out and have a meal and leave your children round a corner a couple of hundred yards away facing a busy road is as good as abandoning them in my eyes. Why do people stick up for the way them poor children were left. i know its a terrible thing that happened to their daughter and for them to go through that must be heartbreaking. But anyone who thinks its ok to go out for the night, and leave 3 children without an adult to babysit them needs to be checked by social services. When my children are in bed there is always some in the house i would never dream of leaving my kids in their bedrooms and waltzing off to get something to eat or drink. That is completely bonkers. Im so sick of people on here sticking up for the Mc Canns idiotic behaviour resulting in the disappearance of Maddie. I have sympathy for them for what happened to their daughter, they didnt deserve that, noone does. But there is two aspects to the discussions on here, one is it was a terrible thing to happen and whoever did this deserves to get put away for years. The other is them parents caused this situation by leaving the children alone and no they didnt deserve it but the blooming well put them children at risk. And thats the way it is as far as im concerned.

Thye have a website - if they posted a video of the route they took to check the kids and the distance, then people would have a better idea of whether or not it is reasonable. If it really was 20 yards in a direct uninterrupted line ,as the McCann mythology persists in peddling - would be happy to be shown that it is and put that issue to bed.

I think the only involvement the parents had was not to check on the children as often as they say. People working i the restaurant seem pretty adamant that no one ever kleft table. IMO that's the only less clear or suspicious thing about them. That way whoever abducted her or killed her had a lot more time to do it than we were led to believe.
Also when they were asked who was the last person to see Madeleine alive one of them said that they were not allowed to say... That probably means that is an important question, otherwise why not say it was one of them or one of their friends?

I agree with 2mum.

I dont believe the children were checked on very often. I think the Mc canns are carrying a lot of guilt on their shoulders. I would have eaten with the children earlier than do what they did. Whoeevr thinks the Mc Canns behaviour was acceptable must indulge in the same behaviour. I know its not possible to watch a child 24 seven in your house and accidents can happen, but what they did is a totally different thing which is called selfishness and neglect. If they wanted to enjoy theirself on holiday they should have left their kids at home with a relation at least. I think the Mc Canns had probbaly done things like that before.

i simply can't cast judgement on these parents (the Mccanns) who are quite clearly in the most excruciating pain. and i don't understand those who can.

My heart goes out to them for the pain they must be going through, i only hope it never happens to any one of us. If they hadnt been so irresponsible it probably wouldnt have happened though, Wheelsonthe bus this is not just a kidnapping. They went out and left their children and one got kidnapped. They went out and left them, do you not understand that? It is awful and they must be in terrible pain but they left the children and this terrible thing happened. Surely they should hold their hands up and something should be done about that? If a woman on a council estate with 3 kids put them on bed and wet to bingo or a pub round the corner out of sight and supposedly checked on them but one got kidnapped is that ok?

I do think its a bit of a class thing they were 2 doctors very respectable. It would have been called neglect if a chainsmoking beer swigging woman on the dole in a coucil estate did that she would be run out of the place by locals and possibly have gone to jail for it.

they have got their punishment - as you would see it - in spades. what's the point of persecuting (or prosecuting) them even? absolutely none. You see the pain and agony in their faces every day.

I wouldnt wish anyone to lose their child as a punishment. They put Maddie in that situation and their twins as well. It could have been all 3 children kidnapped. Thankfully the other 2 were not taken and as ive said i do feel for the parents for what theyre going through. I am so angry they left their children in that room and had a nice dinner with their mates. Theres nearly 1 million pounds in the donation fund on their website, why dont they donate some of that to charites and children in poverty in the uk. Their are children starving and dying right now and theres nearly a million pound sitting in th Mc Canns bank account that could help a lot of needy children. There is an investigation going on at the minute for Maddie and searches and media coverage and the general public on the lookout. What about other children who need help right now?