Mosque shooting in Christchurch NZ

[crabb]

Multiple fatalities reported. 300-500 people at Friday prayers when a gunman went in with an automatic weapon shooting for 5-20 minutes (varied witness reports). And another mosque also involved with injuries. Poor Christchurch.
mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-15/armed-police-respond-to-suspected-shooting-christchurch-mosque/10904306?pfmredir=sm

I wouldn't have said there was diminishing coverage in the UK either. It dominated the news just now at 6pm. Many pages coverage in the Sunday Times today, absolutely we are not 'cold' to terrorism over here.

Also so much praise for Jacinda Evard (apologies if spelt incorrectly, don't want to leave the post to check) showing such heartfelt compassion and leadership. I'm seeing lots of that on my FB today too

Jacinda Ardern, apologies.

Thisisnot not meaning to step on any toes..

I’m just wondering.. I just feel 37 minutes of full freedom for an armed person to be going from one mosque to another and absolutely no ambulances allowed in is in my head an absolutely long time.

I’m Muslim and my brothers survived one mosque attack and my husband nearly missed the Finsbury Park attack two years ago so be easy on me. I am feeling hopeless that if such thing happens, by 37 minutes a lot of damage is done.

Is this the normal response time in such situations?

I’m also very confused as to how he managed to post manifestos and email them to authorities even before he started the attack. The live stream was on Facebook.

I just wonder why no one from outside the mosque managed to call police so they can be there quickly

I’m aware I might be sounding very naive

I’m so sorry that the Islamic faith has been targeted like this in NZ. I understand your concerns. I take it you don’t live in NZ?
Firstly, guns have traditionally been for game hunters, farmers and police/military. It isn’t normal for an NZ civilian to have a gun or hold a personal firearm licence. Until now, it hasn’t been needed. For example, you won’t see kids taking guns to school or social clubs etc. There’s crime, sure, but guns aren’t as present as they might be elsewhere in the world. Guns are for farming, hunting and wildlife. These three areas require guns in NZ because it’s a country with massive areas of wild bush and agriculture. So you can get them, but like most western countries, you need a valid reason and licence. Having said that, NZ gun licences are about to get a lot stricter under the current government, as an immediate reaction to this tragic atrocity.

1. The population of NZ is small in comparison to most Western countries. That means smaller military and police forces. It also means longer response times because distances from the appropriate forces to the target may be longer (or shorter), depending on the location of the problem. But I can assure you that NZ has highly trained individuals throughout the country. When they get to where they need to be they will act swiftly.
2. People somewhere, somehow always know when an event such as this will happen. They’re soulless. But so are the perpetrators. Not sure how this will change, although there’s more intelligence searching than ever before. NZ has never experienced such a large scale atrocity in our modern times. It’s not who we are. In general, NZers are open, welcoming, friendly people. Please note that the shooter did not come from NZ. I can’t be sure about accomplices.

I wish all the best to you and hope this may have answered your questions in part.

lifeistough what horrifying experiences. I can't imagine how much this has brought everything back and added a new level of, well, awfulness

In terms of your question about response times, I'm no expert but I know Christchurch and I know London (your post makes me think you probably live in London or nearby?) NZ is just a different world compared to the UK. Christchurch is like a sleepy village in comparison to London and you simply don't have the volume of people passing by. I've seen one or two stories in the news today about bystanders helping, and it honestly wouldn't surprise me if they were more or less the only people who saw what was going on, whereas in London there's always a crowd around. I suspect that that's one very important reason for why the response time is a lot lower than what we would expect in the UK.

In addition, NZ had a terror threat of 'low' while the UK is on high alert. Basically, it's just not something people thought would happen.

I doubt that's any comfort to you but it might give you a slightly better picture of what a different world it is? Chch has a population of fewer than 400,000 people.

froglette has explained it much better than me!

Please note that the shooter did not come from NZ.

Very true and as an Australian it seems clear to me why he would have chosen NZ. Australia being bigger and 'badder' if you like is presumably much better prepared for this type of attack; it's simply more expected. After the Port Arthur massacre in 1996 Australian gun laws were changed very quickly and semi-automatic weapons can no longer be obtained there legally. NZ's different history and hence different laws meant that the perpetrator of this violence could obtain semi-automatic weapons there legally.

I hope that comes across as a factual explanation and not one that appears to lay any sort of blame, because that's the last thing I would mean to do.

Lifeistoughmate so sorry for what your families have experienced, it must have been terrifying. Whenever I see, like just now, Muslims on the news in Christchurch I just want to hug them and reassure them that so many of us just want to live peacefully together. I hope that doesn't sound patronizing, I just feel so sad and depressed by it all and don't want you or any other Muslim to ever feel isolated or victimized

Ridical so true that Australia is better equipped for these horrible scenarios. Someone on here asked earlier in the thread whether or not our countries help each other out. Of course we do! I hope your PM will have valuable advice for ours in the coming days. 🌷

Thanks everyone means a lot.. no it’s not patronising at all.

When the attack happened on Friday I admit I was so scared of a heedless backlash I spent all my days making sure to communicate with everyone I know globally especially young Muslim men that the attacker wanted there to be a retaliation and that this would be non productive and won’t make them feel less vulnerable. I didn’t have a reason to worry but with all the reports on families of people who were groomed I just felt all them boys who are into gaming will be seeing a lot of this guys supporters online and would think they represent the world around them and might think they’re standing up for themselves by lashing out.. it’s an assumption which I decided not to risk.

But today I did myself a disfavour and read the manifesto of the man... read about how he treated the woman asking for help .. then saw the attack in Surrey and racial slurs in oxford and another arrest in london. and as I am pregnant and my hormones are raging it started to hit me how me and my headscarf are now a target for his followers. I’m struggling to comprehend that this much cold blooded evil exist as I realised he isn’t mentally deranged as I assumed he would be. He is ordinary.... meaning, he could be anybody.

I’d hate to make this about me because it isn’t.. and my feeble coward ness doesn’t represent most people as I’m just in a vulnerable state as am white skinned with a blond baby and pregnant.. I’m usually the type that just takes what life throws at me but I feel I could easily be mistaken for a convert which he very much states that he fiercely hated. He called for follow up attacks and it seems to be starting to brew.

So as my brother returned home late today me and my morher were frantically worried and I went into floods of tears.. just playing scenes of what could be happening to him.

I went to sleep and my husband came late to the room, and when he came I woke up with serious paranoia uncontrollably shaking and my mind froze.. for a good minute.. before I was awake enough to realise that he was just my husband.

I hate to sound so pathetic and I know I’m just making the agenda of the perpetrator succeed by becoming fearful. I feel guilty that I can’t just pull it together. Something about this just feels so different and exposed .

Every terror attack did make me scared, 7/7 bombing was very close to home and I remember not using public transport for a good few months afterwards and just walking it to work ... but this one feels terribly different.. it does feel isolating to be targeted for your appearance and stand out from a crowd.

Reading all the comments on places like YouTube makes it all sound like it’s surrounding us more than I thought.. i just assumed these people are a minority but it does seem like there is a lot of like minded individuals and I feel like an obvious target on a street.. and just very defenseless with an infant and pregnancy.

The only hope I feel now is the good people who are showing compassion And solidarity. They make it feel like we are not an isolated target.. so Please don’t think it’s patronising to let your Muslim neighbours know that you are there for them.

Lifeistoughmate oh I so feel for you and I think it's perfectly natural for you to feel a hightened sense of awareness and emotion given that you are pregnant (congratulations!) and obviously the events of last week are uppermost in everyone's mind. I suppose the only thought to hold on to is that the vast majority of people don't think at all like that awful killer in New Zealand, most folk are just going about their daily life and want to just get along with their neighbours. All we can really do is love and care for one another across all faiths (and stop looking at YouTube! xxx)

I don't understand criticism of the response time. Police were on the scene within six minutes and the perpetrator was in custody within 37 minutes. He was stopped by armed police and members of the public, all of whom risked their lives in an horrific situation.

Oh LifeIsToughMate.

LifeisToughMate, aroha nui.

A friend and colleague of mine is Muslim. A loved one of hers is currently in Christchurch hospital, they do not know if he will pull though. It's only by chance that she was not there also.

Another friend of ours - her friend's husband was killed.

The things you have experienced, they are truly awful. You are not being pathetic, or a coward, you are having a perfectly reasonable and valid response to current events in light of terrible things you have experienced in your past.

I'm very conscious of how brave Muslim women are in wearing their hijab and burka (sorry if I've got terminologies wrong, or spelling), and how some people perceive them as targets when they do so. All I can do is what I do, which is make sure that when I see these women, of all ages, I make eye contact, and smile. We're all sisters, after all. And I can promise you, if I or any other member of my family see someone being harassed in any way for being Muslim, we will stand with the victim, against the harasser.

This heinous act of terrorism has opened up a lot of debate and discussion amongst my friends and family. Something it has done is made people think about how casual some people are in their racism and Islamophobia, and how sometimes we have been guilty of letting it slide, because it was awkward. It has been a wake up call to say 'enough. No, I won't listen to your hate speech, I will not pretend to tolerate it or accept it. I will call you on it'.

I am so sorry this has happened to your Muslim compatriates in New Zealand.

lifestough

I think you would benefit from professional support. And ask your Muslim community for guidance.
Because absolutely this action is designed to make you and all Muslims feel frightened.

Non-Muslims can reassure you as much as we like but we cannot possibly know how it feels to be targeted by these radicalists - because we are not.

What about contacting police for advice/information? Surely there is a hate crime advice service? You will be one of millions feeling this way and you don't need to justify your feelings.

Can you tell your friends how your feeling so they can be with you whwn you do out? I assure you there are very may people feeling as you do.

But please don't read any more of his words or watch his footage, don't play into his hands.

Sorry bc I know words are inadequate. I myself am having to force myself to get through the hours and help the children feel safe.