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i'm a bit confused, so don't berate me...

1118 replies

mylittleimps · 20/05/2007 10:39

before all the usual crowd start slagging me off this is just my personal opinion and i am entitled to express how i feel. if you dont like it i dont care as i will not be telling any of you how to live your lives. I've read the very long thread and i'm confused, mainly about attitude in the UK, i've grown up thinking it's not acceptable to leave a young child alone and hence i would not be going on holiday and leaving my children alone. (and people i talk to in my town feel as i do) I cannot relate to it and got annoyed when a colleague of maddy's father said it's a situation every parent can relate to (what leaving your children out of view for an hour just so you can go and do something that could have been done in your apartment on the otherside of door to the rooms your children are sleeping). I find it hard to empathise with the parents (but saying that i recognise it is the most dreadful position to be in, not knowing who has your child/or where your child is), my heart however goes out to the little girl and i pray and hope that she comes out of this fine.
I don't understand why the press have made the practise of leaving toddlers alone acceptable - especially when there was a babysitting service. i don't understand why the family and friends of the parents just can't show a bit of humility (i only hear: "why isn't more being done", "why aren't the police doing more", "it's all very fine what the police are doing but it's not getting maddy back" and the colleague's statement above). if there had been a bit more gratitude being shown to the support they are getting rather than it's a done deal that they should be getting it i would feel more inclined to have some feelings for the parents. BUT why am i such a cold hearted cow and taking the enormous risk of posting this on MN? because of the facts (i'm not apportioning blame, I'm just stating the facts which make it difficult for me personally to have sympathy to their situation) - there was a babysitting service and it wasn't used, they chose to go out to dinner and not eat on the balcony, they earn extremely well and did not employ a nanny to take on holiday with them ,anything could have happended in half an hour/an hour between checks WITHIN the apartment (drowning,electricution,fire hitting head, 4 year olds are very independant and she might have woken and thought she'd go find mummy/daddy) the exit doors could not be seen from the restuarant. This is not the case that they turned their back for a second in a busy area and she was snatched, nor that they were also sleeping when it happened, that they did have a babysitter and it happened then.
in whatever situation a child is taken the perptrator is the worst kind of evil and it gives me great hope that there are good people out there that just want to help in whatever way they can (although i do worry about those that want to but cant really afford to and we are not talking about a poor family needing help are we)
i just get annoyed at the fact that they APPEAR to be seeing that they are entitled to all of this, when they should be showing they are extremely lucky to have such a caring and thoughful home nation.

when nothing happens to the child the mother/family get lynched in the press for what might happen when leaving their child home alone, if something does happen ,like the child going missing, the parents are vindicated from responsibility. like i said i'm confused.

OP posts:
fireflyfairy2 · 20/05/2007 18:40
Hmm
minorityrules · 20/05/2007 18:41

Absolutely smug in my parenting

How can anyone feel it is acceptable to leave 3 under fives in an unlocked apartment is beyond me.

And yes I say the pervert was given the chance as Madeleine was left like a lanb to the slaughter. If trying to snatch someone with a risk of parents in the building or one that was alone and would be alone for 30 mins or more, of course the latter would be the one you go for

Parenting today is unbelievable. Children are treated worse than fucking dogs

fireflyfairy2 · 20/05/2007 18:42

If we knew that answer we would tell you.

I guess there is no one answer.

It is every parents decision to judge that for themselves.

Just out of curiosity,what age are your children mylittleimp?

McDreamy · 20/05/2007 18:43

oh my life - this thread is unbelievable. I cannot beleive that some people can be so nasty

fireflyfairy2 · 20/05/2007 18:43

Peadophiles can strike when the parents are in the same room, has been going on since the dawn of time.

Stop throwing insults at people, it's not big and it's not clever.

lulumama · 20/05/2007 18:44

whatever my opinion re leaving preschoolers unattended, it doesn;t change one iota the sympathy and empathy i feel for the mccanns

whereas you measure yours by your own standards and give out a quota of empathy you deem fit

Carmenere · 20/05/2007 18:45

Ok I am going to say something that is really horrible and I would never normally say this but to those posters who don't have it in their heart to feel empathy for the McCanns: I feel sorry for your children because it is a sad thing to be raised by parents who have such a narrow view of the world.

I don't think it is acceptable at all to leave toddlers unattended adn I wouldn't do it but that doesn't stop me feeling empathy for those who made that mistake. The two things are not mutally exclusive.

mylittleimps · 20/05/2007 18:46

what i've managed to catch up on is that no-one will discuss this, discussion is stiffled becuase people who don't agree with doing anything other than showing total sympathy/empathy shoot down poeple that question the media and their decision. i started this thread as I've not had the chance to get involved before but i am quite tired of it being skipped over and i think it needs answering as otherwise other children will be put at risk (not just from being snatched - as others have pointed out there are far more immediate risks being left alone)because it is deemed not to be neglect (as long as your white, middleclass and married)

i mean i understand they've got a publicist -that makes my stomach churn more (apologies if i've got that wrong as i've been busy today and not checked just what someone told me)

OP posts:
chenin · 20/05/2007 18:47

Iyou am gobsmacked at some of the vitriol towards the poor parents on here... I hope to God you ppl have never ever made a mistake or poor judgement with your* children?
And what has the fact they are 'middle class' to do with it? It seems that some of you have a chip on yer shoulder about someone having more money than you... a real dig tbh. 'Oh, they can afford it... they are in a nice resort... they deserve everything coming to them'.

And as for saying, they don't show enough humility... words fail me. Have you even tried to imagine the anguish they are going through? So... they don't quite come across how you would want them to on TV... well, bully for you.

Good grief... some of you posters need to show some compassion. I hope to God you never ever make a mistake with your children.... they are human... yes, maybe they made an error of judgement but they are going to have to live with that every day for the rest of their lives, whatever has happened to their liitle girl.
Horrible sanctimonious postings... words fail me.

niceglasses · 20/05/2007 18:50

People will have that discussion/are having that discussion, but its polite (remember that notion of politeness?) not to do it whilst we stil don't know what happened.

And we have had calm discussion re this on here - was one just yesterday. If you come on here with such inflamatory language, then you aren't going to get reasoned discussion.

MrsBadger · 20/05/2007 18:54

I am too saddened by this not to post.
It reminds me too much of the awful 'women who were wearing short skirts when they were raped were asking for it' line.

chenin · 20/05/2007 18:57

mylittleimps... so what if they have got a publicist..maybe they have been advised that it will help keep the publicity up and help find out what happened to their little girl. Who cares? They are doing everything they can... wouldn't you.
And you seem obssessed about someone being 'white, middleclass and married'. So bloody what... in this particular scenario, it is somewhat irrelevant.
The feeling that comes through from your postings, and I have read them carefully.. is that... they deserve everything they've got (because they have money and made an error of judgement). Ye Gods....

mumandlovingit · 20/05/2007 18:58

i cannot believe that two well educated people would make the mistake of leaving three under 5's unattended for any length of time to go and eat elsewhere but they did.

it isnt something id do myself but they did.

however stupid i think they were for doing it im sure that they're blaming themselves just as much as other people are if not more and they're going to have to live with that decision for the rest of their lives no matter whether the girl is found and fine or if the worst has happened to her.

yes it was a stupid thing to do in my eyes but to have your child abducted!, i cannot even start to think of what that family is going through.they certainly didnt deserve that.

my heart goes out to their family and i hope that that gorgeous little girl is returned safe and sound to her family soon.

i very much doubt they'd ever let one of their children out of their sight again.

everyone makes some mistake at some point in their life.it's devestateing to them that this is the result of theirs.

my prayers are for maddie

Rowlers · 20/05/2007 18:58

What sort of answer do you want?
47.35 metres?
What difference will an answer make?
If this were RL, I think you'd be embarrassed by your comments here.
I understand the point you are making and am sure most have thought about it themselves.
But essentially it makes no odds now does it?
I also think you have made some enormous assumptions about the thoughts and actions of these parents.

chenin · 20/05/2007 19:00

mumandlovingit... what a good post.

missgriss · 20/05/2007 19:11

I can't believe this subject is still ongoing. I hope the McCanns never have to read this drivel.

Gingerbear · 20/05/2007 19:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

rattleskuttle · 20/05/2007 19:20

the mccanns world has been torn apart. i don't think they will care what anyone thinks of them. perhaps one day a sibling might try and research what happened to their sister and end up seeing stuff like this 'though.

my father's brother died by accident aged 2. he fell into an unguarded fire while being looked after by his aunt. my grand mother never forgave herself and knew for the rest of her life that if she hadn't left her child it wouldn't have happened. the brothers and sisters have never got over it.
please have some sympathy and i'll say it again:

everyone makes errors of judgement. it is part of being human.

mumemma · 20/05/2007 19:26

mylittleimps - what is the point in starting yet another thread? There have been several going discussing this point ad nauseum. The most recent got quite heated at the beginning but then turned into a reasoned debate covering other issues such as the setup at Mark Warner et al, which does not always necessarily encourage children to eat with parents, etc, etc.

Why didn't you just join that thread or was it maybe because you only have one point of view and can't join in a discussion which has a fair exchange of views with people respecting each other's opinions.

I think I am actually a little bit confused! What do you want from this - the McCanns to be publicly lynched once this is all over? Would that make you feel better?

Let's face it, whatever our opinions are, they are receiving the ultimate punishment.

mylittleimps · 20/05/2007 19:27

i am white, married middle class with 2 pre-schooler children

rowlers i may have made some assumptions but then so has everyone who has passed judgement on me over one snapshot of my thought process (ie this thread) and i just find most replys on here a joke - i am being called judgemental?? hmmm how did they come up with that judgement? i am being called nasty. hmmm not a very nice thing to say. i am just mortified that people think it acceptable to leave kids alone because everyone else does it and even when one goes missing/gets abducted (still no one really knows) people are still happy to say it is acceptable and what's not acceptable is to say had they not there (more than likley)wouldn't be a child missing.

so yes i have no problem saying i struggle to empathise with their situation as i could never be in that predicament - having a child missing because i left them alone to go to dinner. that's not judgemental that's just explaining why i find it hard to empathise their situation and can't understand soemthings about all this - i am concerned if it had been someone else (ie not doctors etc etc) they would have been shot by the press (not saying that's right either) and the general assumption being put out to other people that says hey it's fine to leave under 5's at home alone - houses get broken into all the time and they are full of danger etc etc

OP posts:
JoanCrawford · 20/05/2007 19:30

gingerbear, I think your description in the last line of your post is what most of us on here are thinking. Hope it doesn't get deleted as it's by no means as insulting and damn right disgusting as alot of what mli has posted.

SaintGeorge · 20/05/2007 19:32

As mentioned by others, there does seem to be an influx of new posters, spouting argumentative and nasty things.

IMO there are two possibilites here.

1 - They are trolls in which case continuing to berate them and allowing yourselves to be angered enough to post vitriol in reply is playing their game. Stop, they will get bored and go elsewhere.

2 - They are sad people, with no empathy or understanding, who like to shout loudly enough for everyone to hear. Don't waste your time on them, it only allows them to shout some more.

chenin · 20/05/2007 19:33

mylittleimps... I don't think you are actually reading the replies properly. there is no-one on here saying it was acceptable to leave the three children. Again and again and again, the majority of people on here said the parents made an error of judgement, because they are human, and they are now paying the most awful price for that error.
Where is anyone saying it is acceptable? Have you never ever made even the tiniest mistake with your children?
Have you never looked back and thought 'God, that was a bit daft of me... lucky nothing awful happened.. next time I will be more careful?'
I certainly have made mistakes because I am human.. have not you?

LongDistanceClara · 20/05/2007 19:34

MLI, I'm white, middle class and have two preschoolers.

I also have compassion and sympathy for two people who are without their preschooler and have been for over a fortnight.

Doesn't matter that I'd not have done what they did - not one jot. I still feel heartsick for them and for Madeleine.

chenin · 20/05/2007 19:35

and littleimps... plse stop blathering on about their status (being doctors). It is irrelevant.. and it is winding me up big time.

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