i'm a bit confused, so don't berate me...

[mylittleimps]

before all the usual crowd start slagging me off this is just my personal opinion and i am entitled to express how i feel. if you dont like it i dont care as i will not be telling any of you how to live your lives. I've read the very long thread and i'm confused, mainly about attitude in the UK, i've grown up thinking it's not acceptable to leave a young child alone and hence i would not be going on holiday and leaving my children alone. (and people i talk to in my town feel as i do) I cannot relate to it and got annoyed when a colleague of maddy's father said it's a situation every parent can relate to (what leaving your children out of view for an hour just so you can go and do something that could have been done in your apartment on the otherside of door to the rooms your children are sleeping). I find it hard to empathise with the parents (but saying that i recognise it is the most dreadful position to be in, not knowing who has your child/or where your child is), my heart however goes out to the little girl and i pray and hope that she comes out of this fine.
I don't understand why the press have made the practise of leaving toddlers alone acceptable - especially when there was a babysitting service. i don't understand why the family and friends of the parents just can't show a bit of humility (i only hear: "why isn't more being done", "why aren't the police doing more", "it's all very fine what the police are doing but it's not getting maddy back" and the colleague's statement above). if there had been a bit more gratitude being shown to the support they are getting rather than it's a done deal that they should be getting it i would feel more inclined to have some feelings for the parents. BUT why am i such a cold hearted cow and taking the enormous risk of posting this on MN? because of the facts (i'm not apportioning blame, I'm just stating the facts which make it difficult for me personally to have sympathy to their situation) - there was a babysitting service and it wasn't used, they chose to go out to dinner and not eat on the balcony, they earn extremely well and did not employ a nanny to take on holiday with them ,anything could have happended in half an hour/an hour between checks WITHIN the apartment (drowning,electricution,fire hitting head, 4 year olds are very independant and she might have woken and thought she'd go find mummy/daddy) the exit doors could not be seen from the restuarant. This is not the case that they turned their back for a second in a busy area and she was snatched, nor that they were also sleeping when it happened, that they did have a babysitter and it happened then.
in whatever situation a child is taken the perptrator is the worst kind of evil and it gives me great hope that there are good people out there that just want to help in whatever way they can (although i do worry about those that want to but cant really afford to and we are not talking about a poor family needing help are we)
i just get annoyed at the fact that they APPEAR to be seeing that they are entitled to all of this, when they should be showing they are extremely lucky to have such a caring and thoughful home nation.

when nothing happens to the child the mother/family get lynched in the press for what might happen when leaving their child home alone, if something does happen ,like the child going missing, the parents are vindicated from responsibility. like i said i'm confused.

but yo might not be able to enviasge being in that situaion, but does that mean you really cannot empathise

as i posted earlier, i would not and have not left my children alone ever.....but it does not stop me empathising 100 %

do you empathise less with a woman raped , walking home alone at night, than one raped in broad daylight?

do you empathise less with a teenager mugged for their phone, because you think they are too young to have a phone?

do you empathise less with someone who loses a relative to cancer because they used to smoke?

there is not reserve of empathy, it is boundless

as a mother, try putting yourself in the shoes of madeleine's parents

living with the horror of what happened

blaming themselves, and maybe each other

and the horror of being judged, chastised and berated for an error of judgement

and you cannot find it within yourself to feel compassion?

ginderbear, i'm so nasty and you're so nice???????????? please grow up people can express different thoughts, that's debate. i am just confused about how helpful it is to children in general to not question the decision to leave them alone.

yes errors in judgment, but they are used to making decisions/judgments every day and yet they made this judgement with their own children. not to question the hows and whys and the press not doing so is putting more children at risk from ALL the dangers from being left home alone.

of course i want to see her back safe and well and i do empathise with the fact they are without their child right now in dreadful circumstances but i can't extend that because of the reasons why she is missing.

the point is protecting all children from this sort of decision and just empathising doesn't do that.i'm looking at it as a positive thing highlighting the decision not to leave your child alone is the right one

If you look back at your approach, it is pretty straight-forward to see why you have not achieved your aim.
You have repeatedly asked posters to answer your question; most people have no answer for you. And you have become annoyed with people who can't give what you are asking for.
While many can understand your questioning the acceptability of leaving a child unattended, most cannot understand why you are focussing on this issue alone.
I am sure the parents are not only beside themselves with worry over their mssing child, but also berating themselves for ever leaving them unattended.
And if you get all huffy and argumentative, it gets people's backs up.
And you do sound huffy and argumentative, I'm afraid.

you're comment about the parents; lack of humility is just horrendous

your comment

QUOTE
so yes i have no problem saying i struggle to empathise with their situation as i could never be in that predicament - having a child missing because i left them alone to go to dinner.UNQUOTE

So... what you are saying is... they deserve it.
And... bully for you... you are just perfect and have never made a mistake.

I was in a shop with my DD1 once, and picked up a top to look at... within seconds my DD had disappeared... into thin air. It all turned out OK.. she had wandered off and that was the worse 5 minutes of my life - I was running round the shop like something demented. She was actually yards from where I was originally but I was too hysterical to think straight. Those poor poor parents are over 2 weeks down the line, with that sort of feeling. If you have no empathy or sympathy, you are not human, tbh.
You would have blamed me, I presume, for looking at the price of a top in a shop....

I have just caught up with this thread and have asked for bobbysmum's post of 18:11 to be deleted. It's one of the most upsetting I have read on the subject.

Good call WTH.

helliebean, that is the point, the total point , turning your back for second is completely different to making a conscious decision to leave you three children to go to dinner elsewhere. that situation as you describe is one that every parent can relate to and so i can safely say I would feel complete empathy. this is what confuses me, people are comparing leaving your child alone to go out to dinner in the same way as being with your child and something happening.

the parents being doctors has a lot to do with it, would they get the same treatment from the press if she was a single mum on benefits on holiday with her boyfriend with her children from a previous relationship? would they still have their two other children in their care?

if everyone is in agreement (and Xenia deffinately wasn't and there were others just can't remember names)then why is it so wrong to say on MN that those children should never have been left alone - if that message is put out others won't take the risk in future

WTF are you talking about you mad cow(oh now there is a thought!)?
You are definitely allowed to say that they shouldn't have been left alone. You are just not allowed say that you would never make a mistake.

I think what they did was fine. They did it based on the assumption that there wasn't someone planning to kidnap their child. They did it based on trust that the world is a safe place. And you know what? It is a safe place. In the West, generally speaking children are safe (not perhaps from their parents/relatives/family friends in terms of sexual abuse, but certainly from random kidnapping strangers).

I agree entirely with Xenia and Carmenere and all the other posters that have in individual ways poured scorn on the OP.

But I am interested in one aspect assuming that all the echoes of the OP are from different individuals (a bit assumption I grant you). It seems clear that the fact that 'they could afford a babysitter' and that they are 'clearly not poor' etc etc is a big part of the vitriol That is interesting. Isn't it.

Based on risk, children should never ever be allowed to cross a road in any circumstances including when accompanied by an adult. Or get into a car. Or inhale anyone's cigarette fumes. Because lets face it those are HUGE risks compared to leaving them in the apartment in Mark Warners. Perhaps the parents felt that they were safer if they were checked on by them rather than left with a babysitter?

rolwers - given the length i went to to explain my OP I never wanted to be huffy or argumentative, i really wanted to highlight the impression i get from the media and people's attitude so that this doesn't happen again - there is nothing we physically really can do to get maddy back but what we can do is to make sure poeple are educated and don't thinbk it's acceptable practice.

but when someone comes into a thread and starts name calling then i loose interest in the niceties. (you all shout that i don't have a compassion or anything, but typos and spelling are picked up on with no thought of dyslexia)

i have one last point and then i'm going to do some painting (hurrah i hear)-

if a woman who has driven the same road 100 times before at 80mph drives down it again at that speed but this times comes off the road and kills her DD and her DD best friend has she suffered enough? should the papers and the courts go easy on her? they certainly didn't (this is a true example). but she didn't set out to kill her dd and friend so an error of judgement or unacceptable risk taking?

There have been various reports that the McCanns actually didn't want to leave the children with a stranger (could be a huge debate about that and I'm not looking to start one) and I've had my concerns about babysitters when on holiday.

The way you have written "that they made a conscious decision to leave their children alone" is as if they just thought they would leave it to chance for anything to happen. They obviously thought that checking on them regularly was a reasonable option.

They are not alone in making this decision - at a hotel we stayed at last year, I would say 30-40% (and possibly more) of parents did the same. I have a reasonable level of accuracy on this as I know there was no babysitting service available and I discussed it with several parents.

JFB - agree totally.

Carmenere I have never said i would make a mistake - i said i wouldn't make that one EVER. btw it's not a mistake it was a deliberate decision they made and i can say hand on heart i woud not ever ever leave my children alone

this is the first time i have ever hoped that i will kill a thread - i honestly don't think i have read a more horrible comment than bobbysmum's - disgraceful

The doors being unlocked thing worries me, because any of the children could have woken up, been scared and wandered off - and there was a pool between them and their parents.

right!
this needs to stop now.
everyone knows everyone else's opinion/views although i have never read anything quite as disturbing as some of these.
there is airing your opinion, then there are posts like these.
people are getting a bit worked up and saying things that are quite frankly, a bit sick.
ffs, the child is missing.
at least have the good grace to wait till she is found, then bllody slate them if you must.

one more,

mumemma why why why is it acceptable and why do so many people do that when everyone know rooms are broken into and there are dangers that the children (espcially pre-school) can come across even if no-one decides to try and break in to steal money etc. do you think maddy's disappearance will stop people doing this? and if not why not.

Who knows? I'm not saying it's acceptable or not but I have done it and I think there will be a lot of debate after all of this and that it will stop some people (inc me) and not necessarily others. It has been a very stark warning but this situation is still extremely rare and will hopefully remain so.

The chilling comment someone else made earlier about the only way to completely stop a paedophile getting to your child is to strap them to you is true and sickeningly they usually use more conventional methods.

I had a pretty scary experience when I was about 8, luckily it didn't go on long enough to turn into anything physical and this was with a trusted babysitter - my mother has never forgiven herself and still discusses it.

I just think there's little point in us judging anyone now.

until the world is rid of child snatchers and peadophiles, nothing can stop this happening, children will be taken very rarely but it will continue. yes, it might make parents think again about leaving their children whilst they eat on holiday, but do you think no child will go missing again

there was a child snatched from her bath, in her own home...

what stops someone so determined?

nothing

lulu! get off here ffs and go help on the scan thread!