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Alfie Evans 7

926 replies

StayingAtTamaras · 26/04/2018 23:25

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GnotherGnu · 29/04/2018 09:02

Numptynuts, is there a link to that status? It could provide a shorthand answer to some of the more idiotic posts I've seen on social media.

numptynuts · 29/04/2018 09:24

Trying to find it Gnu but in the meantime I'm pasting it on different posts myself as I'm sick of seeing words like "murderers, starved to death" etc etc.

Bornlazy · 29/04/2018 09:25

Some of the people who let off balloons yesterday WILL know Alfie. They will be family friends or perhaps even relatives. I know it's bad for the environment but unless it's illegal people will continue to do it. I for one had a lump in my throat watching those balloons heading up to a wee boy who in his short life never got to play with balloons. I would imagine that is the sentiment behind it and lighting a candle or planting a flower ( whilst environmentally much better) wouldn't be the same.

numptynuts · 29/04/2018 09:27

www.facebook.com/matt.mayer.7370/posts/10161279796880643

Found it!

Cheby · 29/04/2018 09:42

I’ve followed all of these threads, but not commented. Been thinking about it all a lot, and what the behaviours we have seen in this case might mean for us as a society going forwards. It’s worrying.

The key thing I have taken from this is that while it is right, fair and not least, kind to make allowances for the behaviour of grief stricken people, grief simply can not be a ‘get out of jail free’ card for any and all actions. It can not and does not excuse anyone from being actively and deliberately harmful toward others. None of us lives in a bubble, our actions affect those around us, even in grief.

While I am talking more generally above, I do feel this extends to things like balloon releases. Balloon releases harm animals, often kill them. Why does grief get you a free pass to do this? To take the argument to the extreme for a minute, what if I felt kicking animals helped me work through some of my anger in grief? Of course that would be abhorrent. But it’s the same result. Living creatures are harmed.

The issue with balloon releases is that people usually only do them when they are grieving. So, if we decide this is a taboo topic when people are grieving, how will it ever be addressed? I helped organise a balloon release, many years ago now, at the funeral of a young adult relative. I didn’t know the harm it does back then. I wish someone had told me about it, we would have chosen not to do it. And my relative loved animals, he’d have hated the thought we might have caused harm as a tribute to him, as do I.

MynameisJune · 29/04/2018 09:55

@cheby animal abuse is illegal, balloon releases are not. So your example isn’t really relevant is it. And no grief isn’t a get out of jail free card for any behaviour. And I don’t agree with what has been said against the hospital. But I cannot for the life of me understand why people want to vilify a grieving family for letting off balloons.

Oh and ignorance isn’t an excuse for you’re letting off balloons even though you’re saying it is.

reallyanotherone · 29/04/2018 09:58

I have tried to raise awareness about balloon releases.

But pretty much the response is that we see here “if it helps grieving people we can’t say anything”.

At some point we are going to need to say something. Grief or no grief.

It’s the same logic as all the italians stepping in to save one high publicity unsaveable child, vs the millions of unknown, anonymous in africa and asia. If you don’t see it happening, you can convince yourself it doesn’t happen.

I feel for all those parents who have been theough this, without the attention, without the world “fighting” to save their child. Like user and Phil. Like cocoa and all the other who have shared their stories.

When you lose someone you want the world to know their name, what they were like, that they existed and had a place in this world. That those people and their loved ones don’t get to tell their story and have it spread round the world like Alfie and Charlie is also heartbreaking.

comehomemax · 29/04/2018 10:06

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Bornlazy · 29/04/2018 10:07

Well really that attention comes at a price... like people openly criticising you on the internet.

TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea · 29/04/2018 10:07

There really is no pleasing some of you is there?

People gathering peacefully where they have previously been disruptive......not good enough because they released balloons.

A perfectly legal thing to do which (whilst having a bad environmental impact) is a nice gesture, which may well have cheered any children watching from the hospital.

Next, because not everyone there directly knew Alfie.....they were invited by the family!

Then the language used is unacceptable apparently. I don't like the whole "battle" narrative around illness, but it is the norm in our society.

There are other things besides balloons which damage the world we live in......including people intentionally being arseholes to others trying their best.

comehomemax · 29/04/2018 10:13

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fenneltea · 29/04/2018 10:16

It was me that mentioned the language used, of course we use language like that to describe ilnesses sometimes, my point was that I do feel it encouraged people to view this whole situation as essentially a war; medics vs parents, not just the actual illness, and nothing could be further from the truth.

Those elements that take great pleasure in causing disruption for god know what reason took it as a green light.

x2boys · 29/04/2018 10:25

I really don't think this thread is the right place to be discussing the ethics of balloon releases, a little boy has died and the family did it as a tribute to him and yes a candle lit vigil may have been more appropriate but I think they have more important things on their minds right now.

TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea · 29/04/2018 10:27

If the people in Alfie's Army are constantly criticised, even when they try to do the right thing, then surely that feeds into the harmful "us and them" narrative?

It's not as if that would ever result in people becoming angry and threatening violence..........oh, wait!

Perhaps those so incensed by the environmental impacts of balloons, on the weekend a child has died, could actually appeal for changes in the law?

That may have more impact on nature in the long term, than using balloons as a stick to beat people with?

reallyanotherone · 29/04/2018 11:16

Perhaps those so incensed by the environmental impacts of balloons, on the weekend a child has died, could actually appeal for changes in the law?

A child dies every day. Alfie is not the first, and won’t be the last. He certainly isn’t the only child that has died in AH this weekend.

Lookatthemsheepsmummy · 29/04/2018 11:19

I've been following (well, lurking!) this thread for the past 2 weeks and have found it highly informative and on the whole, compassionate. I have just been looking at the two fundraisers which were mentioned previously. One of them is for a girl who was treated by Alder Hey as a child, but the other 'Jenny's Birthday Fundraiser' appears to have been set up by a grandmother on behalf of her beautiful little grandaughter Evie, who passed away last week at Alder Hey. From the grandmother's profile, it seems that Evie had sepsis as they have shared information about it and commented on how quickly it can happen. It broke my heart seeing the pictures of her looking so beautiful and full of life, not only because I have a daughter of a similar age, but also the horror of the speed at which Evie was taken from them. Worst of all, the thought that that poor little girl was living her final moments when all that 'kerfuffle' - (that's the nicest way I can think of putting it) was going on on that PICU ward. I will be donating to the fundraiser on the Alder Hey FB page, and I hope Alder Hey patients and staff can find strength at this troublesome time. RIP Evie, RIP Alfie and RIP the other children that we'll never get to hear about who have had to endure this circus at Alder Hey.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/04/2018 11:19

At some point we are going to need to say something. Grief or no grief

But is that point hours after a child's death on a thread discussing the child's family's actions in excruciating detail

Without doubt these are both valid points, but isn't "you shouldn't say it now" just an extension of the claim that "you shouldn't say it at all"?

As we've seen throughout these threads, for some it will never be the right time to address such issues, and to me that seems to be dangerous

GnotherGnu · 29/04/2018 11:36

Thanks for the link, Numpty.

GnotherGnu · 29/04/2018 11:41

I wouldn't make an issue of the balloon release for all the reasons stated upthread. However, given the current focus on reducing single use plastic, it would be appropriate to include a paragraph in the legislation banning balloon releases - or perhaps banning the general sale of neon filled non-recyclable balloons generally. People will find comfort in things like flowers and candles.

Laiste · 29/04/2018 11:47

I think the balloon issue here stems (once again) not from the immediate family of Alfie doing x, y z but from the whole bandwagon following along all the time. Few balloons - alright. Thousands of them - bit of an issue.

I'm probably being very cynical but i think a lot of the appeal of 'doing a balloon' for Alfie is the fairly obvious display aspect of it.

user1471447863 · 29/04/2018 11:50

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Sozzler · 29/04/2018 11:51

Wow, I really can't believe people are still banging on about the balloon release. The thing is, using a Mumsnet thread about a little boy who has just tragically passed away is not raising bloody awareness is it. Pretty much everyone who has commented in relation to this has agreed balloon releases are not good. It's just another way to continue moaning about this family and their supporters.
Like I and others have already said, if you care that much about balloon releases then go and do something constructive about it.
I know this thread is going to be deleted but at the moment it is on the internet for all to see. Members of Alfie's family could come on here and see that something they felt was a special tribute has been ripped to shreds with criticism. Please show a little compassion and human decency and give it a bloody rest now.

comehomemax · 29/04/2018 12:30

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SilverySurfer · 29/04/2018 12:47

How very true user1471447863 I couldn't agree more.

coolwalking · 29/04/2018 13:00

@user1471447863 the stupidity continues with speculation of organ harvesting and vaccines being the cause of Alfie's awful condition.
Some people are even saying 'I'm so sad there aren't any more updates'
I agree with your post.