Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Alfie Evans 7

926 replies

StayingAtTamaras · 26/04/2018 23:25

Continue here

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Brendaofbeechhouse · 28/04/2018 23:52

Madamg. I agree with every word

RavishMinoux · 28/04/2018 23:57

@MadameGrizzly

Re your post:

"I think that being involved gives their lives meaning. In the past this meaning might have come from working or volunteering, more connected families and more cohesive communities. Now we have social media.

Particularly in deprived areas there is very little social cohesion - but the tragedy groups on FB have a common purpose and really strong cohesion. I saw a couple of AA posts along the lines of 'I've followed Alfie from the beginning!' The cause helped people feel good about themselves and important.

It's a shame that meaningful local projects couldn't be developed to create that cohesion instead - even well organised fund raising or volunteering where people have to leave their homes and interact with one another. I think the protests outside the hospital allowed for real life social interaction.

It's also a shame the little girl Kyrah is attached to the same hospital - the hospital desperately needs some respite from the attention.

I think Alfie's family gets a pass out on the balloons. They might be environmentally atrocious but they aren't illegal yet. For a family that struggles with literacy and won't be publishing long, beautifully crafted eulogies, the balloons in their theme colour are a really clear visual representation of how much Alfie meant to them."

You've written such a thoughtful answer, and one that, for myself, I'll need to read a few times over to fully appreciate. What you've said here really rings very true and was really insightful.

DoryNow · 29/04/2018 00:05

Good grief , can people not leave the bickering for at least a few days? Angry

For those of you wanting to make donations to AH here is their site
www.alderheycharity.org

The two girls mentioned above are asking people to donate in lieu of birthday gifts, I can only find them on the Alder Hey FB page but there are loads of ideas on the main site. If everyone who could manage it donated £2 it would help many children.

HaveAWeeNap · 29/04/2018 00:16

All the pretty seahorses - you are so right!

numptynuts · 29/04/2018 00:32

This copied from someone else status; So far I've been quiet over the tragic case of Alfie Evans, but as a doctor, a father of four and a former intensive care doctor I feel I have a duty to speak.
Firstly, no child is the property of their parents. As parents our own anguish, emotion and needs are entirely and utterly secondary to the best interests of our children. We do not own them. We can't make demands on what happens to them like a piece of furniture. Furthermore, as parents we are naturally conflicted in deciding what is best for them in times of dire crisis. Because of the unconditional love we have for our children we will naturally cling to hope even where there is none. Despite being a doctor I find it impossible to objectively medically assess my own children, because I'm their Daddy, not their doctor.
Secondly, doctors and nurses act in the best interests of their patients - not the parents, not the press, not some feral "army," not politicians, not the Pope, the PATIENT. The first line of the modern Hippocratic Oath is "Make the care of your patient your first concern." The staff at Alder Hey were working under incredibly difficult conditions even before a mob started accusing them of murder. Now their job is impossible.
Thirdly, Alfie Evans has an irreversible, catastrophic degenerative neurological disorder with no hope of recovery. The brain does not regenerate. Respiratory function and other basic physiological reflexes are literally, neurologically nothing whatsoever to do with sentience, consciousness or self awareness. Death, surrounded by those who love Alfie, peacefully, quietly, in dignity is in his best interests, this has been affirmed not just by his doctors but by the highest Court in the land. Having pictures of him in intensive care plastered all over the press, or being used as a political and religious football, or having people scream outside his hospital room is NOT in his best interests.
Finally, the behaviour of "Alfie's Army" is, to be frank, disgusting. Threatening doctors and nurses by name such that they fear for their lives is disgusting. Threatening to storm a children's hospital is disgusting. Threatening to pull fire alarms when other children are on the operating table having life saving surgery is worse than disgusting. Piggy-backing onto the grief of the parents of a baby you have never even met is flagrant grief tourism and an ultimate act of selfishness. Furthermore, veiling such aggressive and malignant behaviour behind a pretense of faith could not be further from what it means to be a Christian.
If you believe there is a conspiracy among the medical profession, or a cover up, or you believe parents own their children, or that the parents' feelings are more important than the dignity of their child, or if you are a member of Alfie's army then please do me a favour and remove yourself from my friends list.
God Bless you, Alfie.

liverbird10 · 29/04/2018 01:11

@numptynuts That status pretty much sums it all up.

TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea · 29/04/2018 01:32

@MadameGrizzly

That was a fabulous post, brilliantly written.

I have been wondering about the motivations of those who join various "armies" too.

They seem to be predominantly disenfranchised, female and mothers (massive anecdata-based generalisation).

Could that disenfranchisement lead to a feeling of powerlessness in most areas of life EXCEPT for over their children?

In which case, a representative of the State, whether a Dr or Judge, pointing out that the parent's control over their children has limits, could feel really threatening - they don't even have power over their own children anymore, the most important people in their lives.

With disenfranchisement so complete, is anger and fear the response?

BuntyII · 29/04/2018 01:39

In response to the comment that the family won't be writing long eloquent eulogies, I must say I found

'My gladiator lay down his shield and gained his wings'

To be very touching. No long eulogies required with this one.

FluffyPineapple · 29/04/2018 01:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea · 29/04/2018 02:03

Fluffy - the family didn't "require" it. It was an event for people to attend, if they wanted to honour Alfie's life.

I really don't think any bereaved parent needs help to remember the date of their child's death. That could be taken to be quite offensive.

HaveAWeeNap · 29/04/2018 02:15

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FluffyPineapple · 29/04/2018 02:20

According to AA's fb post Alfies father called his "Army" to gather to release balloons in his sons name..... If that is lies then who decided to gather at 2.30pm today en masse release balloons? And why?? Why was it necessary to release balloons in memory of one child? How many other children have been or are on an EOL plan?

You wont be able to answer that as most parents don't require a baying mob to revolt as they say goodbye to their loved ones.

FluffyPineapple · 29/04/2018 02:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

windermerebell · 29/04/2018 05:03

Well I have seen the most bat shit post by someone from the USA, it’s wins all the bat shit comments by a mile
In fact numpttnuts I think it was posted just about the comment you pasted

Alfie Evans 7
MyOtherProfile · 29/04/2018 06:41

O my goodness. Imagine the carnage if our gun.laws were different!

MynameisJune · 29/04/2018 06:45

@fluffy loads of families do balloon releases for deceased relatives. There has been one recently here after a 17 year old girl was killed in a car crash. Why are you so determined to vilify these parents?

coolwalking · 29/04/2018 07:18

@MynameisJune as a pp poster said, these balloon releases are always done during a time of grief so they are never challenged because of the sensitivity surrounding the release.

They are wrong and to justify them because of grief is a dangerous precedence. However, the only way to stop them is to educate people about the dangers of balloon releases. And maybe people will encourage grieving families to remember their loved ones in another way. They tried to on this occasion and were told to fuck off and that animals and birds don't matter.

MynameisJune · 29/04/2018 07:28

@cool yeah I’ve read the thread thanks I know what people have said. Doesn’t mean I agree with them. This isn’t the place to go on about balloons. Start a different thread, sign the petition that someone linked to. Do something about it but stop complaining and vilifying a family that will not be thinking properly at this time.

MyGuideJools · 29/04/2018 08:00

numptynuts excellent postStar

fenneltea · 29/04/2018 08:09

I think that unless they were doing anything illegal then they can't really be criticised, as much as I hate balloon releases, they were not doing anything that the law says they can't unfortunately.

I know when my child had a life threatening illness that the last thing on my mind would have been the environment. I can remember being in a shop and feeling so out of place because life was continuing as normal for people and also anger after hearing someone complaining about having a cold Blush so goodness knows what it must be like when your child dies.

What I find worrying is the publicity that they have achieved, losing all dignity for their son and causing distress for staff and patients, I do think we need further protection for children being paraded on social media. It is astounding how people have become so involved with this, and I have to wonder if it wasn't described in such aggressive language whether people would have been as interested, it was all 'warrior' 'fighting' 'battle' 'army' 'soldier' etc. There was definitely an element of people along for the hell of it, I saw one post asking people to remember the riots of 2011.

I hope that things do change, and children are given more protection, not less after this.

mydogisthebest · 29/04/2018 08:12

If it were just the family letting of the balloons it would be bad enough but why did there have to be hundreds of strangers (and that's all they are to Alfie's family) letting them of? Oh and of course they couldn't be content with 1 balloon each could they? Oh no they have to outdo each other in the fake grieving stakes.

Of course it's sad such a young child died. It's sad whenever someone young dies and yet every day someone young does die and hundreds or thousands of strangers don't jump on that bandwagon do they?

AA had over 800,000 members. I find that very sad and somewhat disturbing. A awful lot of them have very strange and almost frightening views and ideas.

A few brave members tried to broach the subject of balloon release but, of course, got shot down with abuse and the "you don't care enough" posts. Quite a few members posted that "they didn't care about fucking animals"!!!!!

sandgrown · 29/04/2018 08:16

Excellent post Numptynuts.It says it all .

fenneltea · 29/04/2018 08:18

Yep,the 'grief tourists' really didn't need to get as involved, it would have been far better in my view for the family to do domething privately. but they have courted the public and the media and felt that they have benefited from it, I think that will be difficult for them to give that up.

MyOtherProfile · 29/04/2018 08:26

it was all 'warrior' 'fighting' 'battle' 'army' 'soldier'

I thought this. When I read people using that kind of language and then saw the photos of a very poorly little boy sleeping a whole different, less battle like range of words came to my mind.

coolwalking · 29/04/2018 08:41

Its been a very disturbing insight into the mob mentality.

People sitting in cars for hours filming the outside of a hospital filled with sick children. Hundreds of thousands peering at photos on Facebook of a sick dying boy. I hope that this 'army' haven't compounded the confusion and heartache that his family must feel. So many people who never met them saying they are heartbroken, been crying for hours, calling the hospital and staff the most abusive names, taking their young children out to stand outside in the hospital with teddys, banners and balloons. Its not something I can comprehend and I don't think I want to.
As much as they encouraged supporters, the mentality of this group of people couldn't comprehend that maybe the best thing they could have done is tell his family to get off SM and be with their boy.

Swipe left for the next trending thread