Is there a thread about the poisoning of Skripal? [title edited by MNHQ]

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I've not seen a thread about it at all, but surely there must be?

It could have been but that means the perpetrator would have to have got inside the house. Surely if he/ she managed to burgle their way in you would put it on the tooth brush or something?
As I said, I can’t imagine it would have been the plan for the Skripals to spread this around Salisbury and potentially kill civilians.
It can’t have been on the door handle when Mr Skripal came back from the airport with Yulia. As I understand it they take minutes to work once enough has got through the skin. It must have been put there during the night.

As I said, I can’t imagine it would have been the plan for the Skripals to spread this around Salisbury and potentially kill civilians

Jeez I know. Plus backfired hugely if it was eh :/

I guess more likely on the outside too, it would be more logical, and possibly explain the involvement of the police officer. Bloody hell, how fucking reckless though eh. As you say a delivery driver or anyone, a neighbour even, could have been affected.

I just can’t get my head round the evil of such materials being developed with no other purpose than to cause such terrible harm to people :( who deserves this kind of horror being perpetrated on them?!

It is grim. I'm quite transfixed by it as it's so unlikely and horrible

It just seems so strange though that if they became infected at home they were able to drive into town, go for lunch, before being overcome?

It does seem a long time lag. I thought these nerve agents got you pretty quick.

Me too. I’m no expert though. (Understatement)

Something which confused me was there was talk about the daughter bringing back the chemical agent from Russia.

I can't see why this would happen, if so why would it be on the door?

I think quite a number of the theories which have appeared in the press were just possibilities that either featured only briefly in the investigation, or were never serious possibilities at all. Until this statement, there really wasn't any word about the investigation, but quite a bit of press speculation which appeared to be based on sources close to the investigation.

That said, there is no explanation of the time of collapse relative to likeliest time of exposure, nor why the two people collapsed at the same time. There have been some mutterings about how novel forms of CW could be tweaked to be assassination weapons, and perhaps there is a reason in the chemistry (and I can quite see why that's not being spoken about).

It just seems so strange though that if they became infected at home they were able to drive into town, go for lunch, before being overcome?

Yes, it's even stranger, when you consider that they visited the cemetery at some point earlier in the day, it seems. Their car was seen (on CCTV?) in the London Rd. area, where the cemetery is, then heading back towards their house at about 9.15, this from the BBC News timeline:

On 4 March, at about 09:15 GMT, Mr Skripal's car was seen in Salisbury in the area of London Road, Churchill Way North and Wilton Road

So either the poison was so slow acting, if it was administered to the door during the night, as to not kick in for some 7 hours, if they left the house (presumably touching the door) at, let's say, 8.30am to go to the cemetery, or it was administered while they were out at the cemetery or at some other time during the day before they left the house again to go into Salisbury (they parked up at Sainsbury's at about 1.40). Even then, it would have had to have been a very delayed reaction.

How can something so deadly as to render at least 2 people critically ill for weeks, with little sign of recovery, as far as we know, and to necessitate the destruction of associated items, and cordoning off large areas, have such a 'slow burn'? It doesn't make any sense to me.

I've just been reading an old article about the murder of Litvinenko. The utter disregard for the safety of other people is striking.

Forensic experts would test the entire bar area, the tables, and crockery. They examined 100 teapots, as well as cups, spoons, saucers, milk jugs. Litvinenko’s white ceramic teapot was not difficult to discover – it gave off readings of 100,000 becquerels per centimetre squared. The biggest reading came from the spout. (The teapot was put in the dishwasher afterwards and unknowingly reused for subsequent customers.) The table where they sat registered 20,000 becquerels. Half that, ingested, was enough to kill a person.

Polonium was a miasma, a creeping fog. It was found inside the dishwasher, on the floor, till, a coffee strainer handle. There were traces on bottles of Martini and Tia Maria behind the bar, the ice-cream scoop, a chopping board. It turned up on chairs – with large alpha radiation readings from where the three Russians sat – and the piano stool. Whoever sent Lugovoi and Kovtun to London must have known of the risks to others. Apparently they didn’t care.

The most crucial piece of evidence was discovered several floors above the Pine Bar, in Kovtun’s room, 382. When police forensic teams took apart the bathroom sink they found a mangled clump of debris. The debris was stuck in the sediment trap of the sink’s waste pipe. Tests on the clump showed it contained 390,000 becquerels of polonium. The levels were so high that they could only have come from polonium itself.

After laying the poison in Litvinenko’s teapot, Kovtun had gone back upstairs to his room. There, in the privacy of the bathroom, he had tipped the rest of the liquid solution down the sink.

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/19/alexander-litvinenko-the-man-who-solved-his-own-murder

Blimey Perking I wonder if other pp were affected after being exposed - those drinking tea made in the same teapot for example ?

Yeah, I've been wondering that. How on earth would one do a public health follow up from that? A hotel that hundreds of people pass through, and a radioactive poison which might cause cancer many years later?

It wasn't just assassination; there was a deliberate terror element.

a radioactive poison which might cause cancer many years later?

is that a known effect ?

Yes. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium#Biology_and_toxicity

(I don't know enough to put figures on the risks for the different people exposed in different degrees during the attack on Litvinenko.)

Just read the interesting and sobering article on Litvinenko.

Yeah, I've been wondering that. How on earth would one do a public health follow up from that? A hotel that hundreds of people pass through, and a radioactive poison which might cause cancer many years later?

I think that's what's worrying a lot of people in Salisbury, with regard to the attack on the Skripals, no-one being aware of the exact nature, strength, or longevity of the substance used. The bench was isolated immediately, one would assume, but other venues they had visited were not cordoned off until over 24 hours after they were found on the bench (as the authorities didn't know where they'd been until CCTV footage was examined). In the meantime, the restaurant and the pub had been in continual public use.

Sky News alert just now that Yulia’s condition is ‘improving rapidly’ and she’s now stable rather than critical.

I’m interested by the use of ‘rapidly’.

Just had a breaking news flash that the daughter is improving rapidly and no longer critical.

Oh wow

Well ,having read that Wiki article I'm not much wiser as to how great a risk is faced by people on the edges of the Litvinenko's poisoning. Because I have zero scientific knowledge or understanding .

I guess anything radioactive ,including from natural sources ,is carcinogenic .

Possibly, but the risk might depend on how you were exposed to it. IIRC alpha radiation doesn't penetrate the skin well.

Yulia is not only awake but talking www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43588450

I really hope she is heavily guarded and safe. If she recovers what then?

Pleased she is recovering. Now we have proof that this could NOT have been an ill-reputed Novichock with an amazing lethality index.

Three people exposed, possibly many hundreds of others, and not a single fatality. Yipee! Not the work of the expected 1000X stronger agents we were led to believe, eh?.

There's the main evidence of May&Boris blown out, right there!

Yulia may be 'improving' and 'stable' but I am still not sure that she will have longterm good health... unfortunately.

I don't think a nerve agent reputed to me the most powerful in the world will just make someone ill for a bit and then leave them with poor 'long-term health'. Just doesn't seem the real aim. 100% of the people supposedly affected are still alive. Pretty poor show for a potent nerve agent (though, fortunate from a human point of view). Makes it extremely unlikely this (Conveniently Russian named) agent was involved. Seems more like something second rate Porton Down could produce, no?

May&Boris telling porkies ..... AGAIN!