Is there a thread about the poisoning of Skripal? [title edited by MNHQ]

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I've not seen a thread about it at all, but surely there must be?

Great Snowiest, Russian thugs fans versus our fans. That's going to go well.

Boris has really stepped up to the plate this morning and royally fucked off the Russians in the unique way that only he can by stating that Putin is directly responsible.

And yet today it emerges that Porton Down was reluctant to identify this nerve agent definitively as Russian and would only say that it was “ of a type manufactured in Russia”

Corbyn’s stance looking more sensible all the time

Sorry badkitten. Forgot to put your remark in quotes

Word is that UK, US and Israel have samples of this nerve agent. The Russians may not. What happened to stuff in previous soviet block countries is anyone's guess. Russia was declared chemical weapon free last November. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/15/uks-claims-questioned-doubts-emerge-about-source-of-salisburys-novichok

Keep your minds open. Everyone employed/ involved in this kind of business has devious in their job description.

Interesting nursy that Porton had it just a "type manufactured in Russia".

That is interesting phrasing by Porton Down.
But then we have Nato joining in supporting it's the Russians stance. Why?

Maybe there are benefits to a new cold war, for all parties.

Maybe there are benefits to a new cold war, for all parties.

Totally. We have always been at war with Eurasia....

Pesistential when you say 'Word is that UK, US and Israel have samples of this nerve agent. '

Whose word? And where did you hear the Porton Down phrasing?

I think there is a major difference between 'Russian involvement' and an order coming directly from the Kremlin.
However, that still doesn't excuse or explain the Kremlin/Putin putting out a strong statement condemning the use of nerve agents.
As always in these situations it's always lll just a testosterone fuelled dick waving competition.
What a different world we would live in if woman held more seats of power

First time ever I agree with Corbyn.

www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-15/uk-manufacturing-its-nerve-agent-case-action-russia this is not the link I read yesterday (which is lost in my huge history of nerdy stuff) but along similar lines.

www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/russian-to-judgement Craig Murray — former US Ambassador to Uzbekistan and prior to that a longtime career diplomat in the UK Foreign Office who worked across Africa, Eastern Europe, and Central Asia — the British government itself has advanced capabilities in Novichok.

Boris might be getting ahead of himself.

But I think May's statement to the Commons a few days ago still fits.

“Based on the positive identification of this chemical agent by world-leading experts at Porton Down, our knowledge that Russia has previously produced this agent and would still be capable of doing so, Russia’s record of conducting state-sponsored assassinations, and our assessment that Russia views some defectors as legitimate targets for assassinations, the government has concluded that it is highly likely that Russia was responsible for the act against Sergei and Yulia Skripal,” she said.

The prime minister said that left just two plausible explanations “Either this was a direct act by the Russian state against our country, or the Russian government lost control of this potentially catastrophically damaging nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others.”
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/12/russia-highly-likely-to-be-behind-poisoning-of-spy-says-theresa-may

So the argument doesn't hang on Russia being the only country with the capability to make Novichok.

Indeed it's not the only country to have access to polonium, but nonetheless murdered someone using polonium in order to leave a fairly hefty calling card.

As someone said above, implausible deniability.

oh yes, I've seen the Craig Murray opinion piece. Of course there will be others arguing to the prevailing opinion, there always are no matter what the issue.

I think there is a major difference between 'Russian involvement' and an order coming directly from the Kremlin.

Then there's the other category: carried out "freelance" by arm's-length mafia, but sanctioned by Putin.

I agree we have to give the investigators the space to get as close to the bottom of it as they can. But Russia is currently a rather murky mafia state, so if there is any Russian involvement at all, it may be difficult to prove where the impetus for the attack came from.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/16/police-launch-inquiry-over-death-of-nikolai-glushkov evidently a bad time to be a Russian.
The police have launched a murder investigation into the death of 68-year-old Russian businessman Nikolai Glushkov. Died 12th March.

I think the view I have come to is that Russia is a very, very strong suspect in these attempted murders but it’s not proven.
There’s a lot of tub thumping and outraged rhetoric going on but I don’t think we can abandon principles of innocent until proven guilty. We should be progressing this through the proper channels.
Its going to look really, really stupid to the international community if this is not solid and properly done.

I'm seeing more FB posts that are going down the conspiracy theory route - false flags, war bringing in more money to the wealthy and so on.
How likely is this? Would we ever know?
From what little I know about Putin it does appear to be plausible that this is an obvious calling card in times when Europe is quite divided and we have a less than special relationship with USA.

Thu 15-Mar-18 14:15:27
I can't help thinking it somehow came over with Yulia (unwittingly?), who had arrived in the UK on Saturday evening, the day before they were discovered on the bench.

Not trying to claim you read it here first, btw (!) but why aren't we hearing about this theory on the news, I wonder?
uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-poison/nerve-agent-planted-in-luggage-of-russian-agents-daughter-the-telegraph-idUKKCN1GS0NN

What I don't get in that luggage scenario is how a nerve agent, which the two people may have handled in varying quantities, caused them to fall critically ill at nigh-on-dammit the exact same time, some hours after they had left the house. Especially given the likely differences in dose/absorption/effect between a tall, broad 66 year old man and a slighter, shorter 33 year old woman. Because the dose surely can't have been overkill, as they're not dead.

They haven't disclosed DS Bailey's exact movements, just that he was an early responder to the incident. His account, what he touched, and his long between that and him becoming symptomatic must be important for the investigation.

I had the read the suitcase claim. It doesn’t ring true to me either Meditrina for the reasons you say. I was trying to think what it might be in that they would both use or wear at the same time. Shampoo or shower gel? Why would the policeman get a dose of that though?

Donkeyoil. Not on news because it’s only in the Telegraph from unidentified sources. Is this perhaps because there are no suspects in the U.K.

Meanwhile, with Russia kept otherwise engaged (by UK's shenanigans) Turkey is busy, surreptitiously invading, Afrin and killing Kurds!

In another lifetime I worked at the Health Protection Agency around the time that Alexander Litvenenko was poisoned and ended up on the periphery of the goings on there at the time.

I don’t think I can actually talk about what happened but what I can say is that having seen how these investigations work, I reckon approximately 5% of what is actually known is in the public domain. Bigger brains than ours will be using the other 95% to work out what happened, keep the rest of us safe and try and stop this happening again. Because public safety will be at the forefront of every step. Please don’t let looper conspiracy theorists convince you otherwise.

And also having seen how these things work I think the notion that Russia might cooperate in any investigation is bonkers, the somewhat cagey way some information is framed is purely politics and the naturally cautious Theresa May would not make the kind of statement she has without a huge amount of compelling evidence.

One other thing my experience taught me is that we are incredibly lucky to have the security and emergency services we do.

Well said, Beholdtheflorist.

I also have some peripheral knowledge of these things and agree entirely with you.