A thread to discuss DEVELOPMENTS regarding Maddie McCann

[jampot]

We can discuss parenting styles in a few weeks

Exactly Cab. On MW holidays I've been nervous about the pool in the evenings. With no fence around, I imagine a LO wondering out into the night and falling into the pool.

Chocolateface - you mean you AGREE they should let us eat together??? DH thinks I'm mad - but it really makes me miserable eating apart.

I dont think any blame can be attached to the holiday company, truly.. their facilities are there to for customers to choose - or not - and at some point actual individuals have to take responsibility for their own decision making.

With regards to their own and their children's welfare I mean

OK minkybiscuit - you've got an all inclusive hol - the kids eat at 5 you eat at say 9. What are you going to do with the kids?

On MW holidays we've fed DS at childrens' tea, then he's hung around while we eat. He'd have been freaked out by a baby sitter he didn't know, and I don't feel reasured by the nannies listening at the doors. Then we have to worry theat he doesn't fall in the pool or run off too far while we're eating.

p.s. You booked the hol not knowing this was the case............

check out their facilities and meal times etc before you book and if they are not what you're after - dont book

Chococlateface - it's horrible isn't it? And then there's the folks with no kids who look at you disapprovingly cos you have a wee one up late disturbing them.

Minkybiscuit - but what if you didn't???????

Can I respectfully suggest that we have an update on the Madeleine McCann thread as I keep looking on here for news as I can't always get to the tv. I think I will start it (obviously this is on my mind constantly)

Hatrick - yes you can get a sitter - BUT you can't CHOOSE who it is. So say theoir nanny during the day is desperate to sit - doesn't matter - done on a rota.

Cab - Mark Warner insist that you do have your children with you over lunchtime, and it is possible for you to eat with the your children in the evening - however the adult evening meals start at 7:30. If you want your child to eat before that high tea is offered from 5, but the menu is geared towards children, and it will be mainly chidlren eating at that time (though we have seen some adults joining in). If you really want to eat an adult evening meal at 5pm then tbh I think that whilst there are lots of places where you would struggle you may find that some of the Spanish resorts may suit (or self-catering). Mark Warner markets to a particular clientele who are after a particular product. They're not trying to take over the package holiday market in any way. Whether you like it or not there are plenty of families who do not have to have their evening meal with their children for them to enjoy a family holiday! My children sleep for 12 hours, especially when they've been swimming for several hours in the day. I only need 7 hours sleep a night, so there will inevitably be 5 hours of so a day that I am awake but my children are asleep.

We have been very happy with our 7 Mark Warner holidays to date. I have to say that we actually decided against holidaying at the Portugal resort because of the issues with its layout, so I suspect that that may be something that MW can look at. But to try to slate the companies on the basis that dinner is not available at 5pm? When they are actually producing food that kids will want to eat (plus having later males for juniors and indies). Come on!

And as for not knowing - didn't you read the brochure? May I respectively suggest you do so before paying for your next holiday.

Ladymuck - Must apologise - just do MW for ski-ing and Sunsail for sailing. In winter you cannot eat with your kids at lunchtime or evening meal - although after a bit of a fracas I did get them to agree to me eating with the kids.

p.s. I am obviously aware of company policies having been on a 'few' hols over last 5 years - but the McCann's may not have been!!!

And darling I aint slating the companies - simply suggesting we lobby them to change what ( I view) as their family unfriendly policies.

Re "parents eating at 5 PM with kids" - It is probably a cultural thing, but nobody eats at 5 PM in the parts of mainland Europe that I have known. Especially in Southern Europe. Not even the kids.

Most normal parents put their under 4s to sleep and then eat because children need more sleep than adults and English parents tend to like a break without chidlren around in the evening. The Portuguese would have the children up until late eating with the parents (as would some English parents). It's just how people differ. For us it got harder as they got older. The last few holidays the twins have been just about old enough to stay up but not really very interested in eating late on with us but starving at 5. Some companies like this for the 5s+ might have supervised video showings whilst adults are eating. They are good systems and good holidays if you like that kind of thing. My daughter worked two continuous summers for a company like this looking after children just like this and had a great time (and was very good and responsible with the children too).

" it really makes me miserable eating apart" - wow how different are we. Yes I like talking to my 18 year old son about politics but a whiny under 5 who should be in bed is not a pleasant thing to have around late at a holiday resort around the dinner table

No, I love going on holiday with the family. Most parents on those holidays like the children in their group or club for some or all of the day but also like to be with them some time too. It's about getting the right balance and compromise. I'm afraid I've always found holidays without any childcare help very hard work and not as much fun but the only time we ever did leave them home for week when I was pregnant with the third I didn't like it - it didn't feel right to be on holiday without the children and we never repeated it.

Cab - would assume that if you're skiing then getting back for lunch with the kids can be a bit difficult. I don't think that even MW are trying to pretend that skiing is a "family friendly holiday" for familes with under5s! They are providing a service for parents who have young children but still want to go skiing. It is a package holiday, and like any package holiday not every aspect will be entirely within your control, but they aim to cater to a particular type of family. If it doesn't suit you, try another company. You'd only need to lobby them to change if they were a monopoly. Market forces will dictate what they do.

As for the McCanns not knowing - how do you deduce that? I'm not sure that I have ever come across anyone in the resorts who was genuinely surprised that most under5s were put to bed by 9 - usually more eyebrows were raised at those who kept their children up, but mainly because they would be sitting miserably in the corner. And if they were surprised then they had a number of options that they could have used (including the fact that they came with a group of 3 other familes). Personally I think that they had assessed the risk and decided to run with it - as many thousands of people do every year. It went horribly wrong for them, and I'm sure that other parents are reassessing the risks, but unless there is a spate of such incidences then people will continue to assess the probability and degree of impact of risk factors and take action as appropriate. In general the risk of abduction from hotels is fairly minute, though in the short term the risk of copycat crime must be higher.

That said I do think that Mark Warner should revisit some of its recent expansion as it does appear to be making resort selections which are less in keeping with its core ethos.

I think it is weird to go on holiday and stick your kids in kids clubs every day. Do you not WANT to see your children? I think it breeds spoilt children and spoilt parents, who cannot bear the idea that their children may get bored and 'whiny'. Even if you are a SAHM and would appreciate a break, does your dh not want to spend all day with the kids? It won't kill you not to go sailing for a few years .

There.

[dusts hands together and leaves]