"No-one could say they were innocent. Those slags dancing around"

[Caligula]

This sent a chill through me. The level of hatred for women in some of the men we live among, is so worrying and is not seen as a particular issue. This was what one of those men jailed today said about blowing up the Ministry of Sound. The idea of young women dancing around, enjoying thenselves, was such anathema to him, that he honestly thought if he blew them up, that would be recieved more positively in the general population as these particular victims wouldn't be "innocent".

WTF is going on in these men's minds and why isn't this mysogyny being taken as seriously as racism?

@ them throwing things at you.
Yes that is a pretty rubbish thing for anyone to do.

Kathy, once a little girl of around 5 asked me for money in Union street, in front of her mum and friends/relatives... I refused and she shouted "take that then" and pretended to throw something in my face.

I was heavily pregnant at the time. The adult women laughed.

poor, poor little girl.

thats why I am hard on this sort of culture. It was a good thing that the toddlers fighting case caused a national outcry, perhaps made them think a bit.

Nightynight, if a terrorist said it was OK to target a club because there would be gay people there and gays are , would you agree they were homophobic? Or would you say, no, they don't actually hate gay people because the club wasn't a specifically gay club, it's all just part of life's rich pattern?

What - in your opinion - actually qualifies as misogyny?

edam, you cant say from the short quote given, that the bomber was more interested in killing women than anyone else. It is a QUOTE, and of course the media are going to pick up on anything anti women, because we all know that muslim men are misogynists...

if he hated women, he would have chosen a female oriented target.

I'd say he was a misogynist if he did that. Or if I heard a complete statement of his view of the world and he didn't condemn the men in nightclubs.

the homophobic bomber did chose a gay pub, didnt he? not any pub that just might ahve happened to have gay people in it.

Er, if you think calling women 'slags' and saying that is a good reason to kill them ISN'T misogyny, I'd be really interested in how on earth you'd define it.
I find your attempts to be resolutely on the side of a wannabe mass murder a tad bizarre, actually.

I wasn't referring to any homophobic terrorist in particular, just a 'for instance' because I'm puzzled by your reluctance to call a spade a spade. What would someone have to do or say to qualify as a misogynist, or a racist, or a homophobe, in your opinion?

Nobody could say they didn't deserve it, those lazy niggers = not racist

Nobody could say they didn't deserve it, disgusting poofs = not homophobic

So, we cannot call a man a mysogynist because he obviously hated women, and wanted to kill as many of them as possible because he was muslim? Is that it? Because it might spill over to other muslims who are not terrorists?

Yuo 'feel' this is our judgment? I resent that comment utterly.

I am jusging these men by their actions. You do not appear to be doing the same.

what is a 'female oriented target' NN? the woman's institute? The mother's union? A Mums net meetup? A lesbian club? He targeted females in what he said. And i find it a bit distasteful that you keep denying that.

Wanker, dickhead, prick etc do not denote sexual behaviour in the way slag or whore does for women. They are generally derogatory terms but in no way suggest sexual licentiousness. The fact that one has to put 'male' in front of 'prostitute' to suggest a male prostitute, whereas simply 'prostitute' will do for women, and people automatically think of 'prostitutes' as female, is quite telling.

Edam's point sums it up.

also from your reasoning NN the homophobic bomber who chose a gay pub was not homophobic, because the pub had straight people in it too.

You do have a point about 'soundbites.' We don't know the full extent of what this man said about things, and this quote is useful for the media. but you really can't get away from the fact that he meant slags to mean loose women at nightclubs, and i do find it worrying that you deny this. People here have talked about misogyny is society being worrying not just muslim society, we are talking about men in general, not only muslim men. Someone brought up the Yorkshire ripper further down, who targeted prostitutes. But we can't give muslim men special treatment if they do act and speak in a misogynistic way. That would be very unfair.

Have been thinking about this thread quite hard - there are some interesting issues here.

I actually think Nightynight may be right that the man quoted may not have been referring only to women - looking at different definitions of slag on internet dictionaries (!) it does seem to sometimes be used of both men and women. I'm sure I've heard men on Britflick gangster movies use it of men, too.

However I stand by what I said before about 'slag' expressing not just disapproval, but real hatred, and I think this, for me, is why the whole thing is so chilling, whether it refers to just men or men and women.

From what Nightynight says about the one time she has used the word, it was clear it was under great provocation - and quite frankly if someone throws something at you and you use whatever word is the most hurtful that you can think of to throw back to them, good luck to you. But the fact remains that it is a word that for most people has strong sexual connotations and if someone is prepared to use the word in cold blood they are basically signing up to a code that says that people who sleep around are worthy to be hated because they sleep around. If someone threw something at someone or set their toddlers fighting and we knew they were of unimpeachable moral rectitude sexually, I'm guessing 'slag' wouldn't be the word that would come to mind.

Now personally, I have done some good things and some bad things in my life and would be open to criticism for plenty of reasons. I have also (when I was a student and long before I met my wonderful dh, to whom I am totally committed) slept around and had some one-night stands. I am not proud of this because there is no reason why I should be, but I am also not ashamed of it.
If someone calls people at a nightclub slags because of their sexual behaviour, they are also calling me a slag.
I am quite prepared for someone (whether Muslim, white male misogynist or old lady) to disapprove of my sexual behaviour, even to 'judge' it, but the idea that it makes me some kind of rubbish or worthy of hatred, well, that freaks me out.

I think Nightynight is an Uncle Tom, tbh. So keen to deny that anyone could possibly hate women, even people who say, er, that they hate women to the point of wanting to kil them.

Hmm it's possible Kathy that they meant both men and women ("slag" when used of men is a word much beloved of police dramas, isn't it? Or is that only in parodies?).

But don't you find it quite telling that there hasn't been this discussion about what they meant in the media? Given that its normal use is about women, I find it extremely telling that it wasn't generally picked up on and discussed. The OP, contrary to NNs postings, wasn't about mysogynist muslims, it was about how our society doesn't consider mysogyny worth noticing, let alone discussing.

i really don't think slag was meant to mean men and women. And it is only used towards men rather creatively, ie in police dramas, by people who are aware that is meant for women - it is a bit of a matey, cheeky insult for a man.

mb,
"because he obviously hates women" is the weak point in your argument.

ruty, there are plenty of ways he could have targetted women - as violent misogynists have done in the past - I am not going to suggest them here.

aloha, edam - he called women who go to nightclubs slags. Not women. A vital difference - he judged them on what they do.
He is guilty of generalising, nothing more (and murder of course, but that is a different issue)

Example:
I hate all men who smoke. All of them, without exception, and I would never consider going out with one, or marrying one.

Does that make me a man hater?
Well, no, it doesn't actually. It makes me a hater of smokey bastards. You don't know anything about my attitude towards women who smoke.

edam, the uncle tom comment is fatuous. Do you want me to start thinking up personal insults to describe you?

so just calling women who go to night clubs 'slags' is not misogynist? Oh i give up.

A wise move ruty. Think I will too.