What do people think is most likely to happen with the irish/UK Border Part 2.

[cathyclown]

OK I took it upon myself in my arrogance. Nah, just enjoyed all the views whether we agreed or not, it has been very interesting.

So carry on folks. Link below to the original thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a3096781-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-Irish-UK-border?msgid=73760649#73760649

She hasn't a clue what to suggest.

A sea border - no way, Foster would flip.

A land border - no-one can afford that.

Ooops, maybe they should have considered this two years ago

yy Purple. But that would have taken guts, something the British government seem to be short of.

Martina, have you worked out who the DUP are yet?

A massive oversimplification but the astounding thing is that the government are willing to risk violence and a possible resumption of the troubles to placate grumbling. But sure it's only Northern Ireland.

plantbatman:

do you have a viable idea for this, ie. one that would keep the borders between NI/GB/ROI fully open whilst also giving the UK control over EU mass immigration to it?

Purple,

Anyone with half a brain knows that the Brexit runaway train was boarded far too quickly.

It is impossible to unravel a membership of many years in a very short time under A50 rules.

Should have postponed triggering A 50 as a minimum to get ducks in a row or something.

But no point in crying over spilt milk and all that.

I wonder if they would ever consider rescinding A50 on a temporary basis (not sure if they can) in order to iron out difficulties before pulling the plug.

It was far too pre emptive. But that was probably party political. Doesn't matter it has left a huge mess just so the Eurosceptics could be appeased. An appalling vista awaits.

Martina - no. None that is palatable to all sides of the community and would be acceptable under the GFA.
Do you?

PurplePillowcase: sorry, that boas long since departed (ie. ref was only a poll) - only a very small bunch of ardent Remainers still cling to that fallacy, perhaps you should join the Lib Dems, lol

Martina.

No. We don't. And May doesn't. Which, if you had any genuine interest in this you would know

Mary et al.

all this talk about the DUP want this , don't want that etc...they only have 10 MPs and if push comes to shove we can do without them

planbatman:

there may be some gnashing of teeth but we have to control the border, we don't want Merkel or similar odering in 1 million undocumented refugees and the Isis brigade that hide amongst them - look how well that turned out!

DUP want this , don't want that etc...they only have 10 MPs and if push comes to shove we can do without them

This is who the DUP represent, they will be the problem, not the 10 MPs

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_loyalism

planbat:
nothing will be 100% acceptable to all sides, hence some compromises will need to be made - and mine seems like the most palatable

Martina who is ‘we’? If you are referring to the Tories, no they can’t do without them. They would lose their shaky majority.

You do realise that unionists in N Ireland (including but not exclusively DUP supporters) would be exceedingly annoyed to have to show identification to travel within their own country?

You do realise that a very small percentage of that community are involved with loyalist paramilitaries who could make their objections very clear in a way none of us want?

Presumably you don’t want to end peace in Northern Ireland?

There's not going to be guns on the streets in Kent when this inevitably goes badly. It'll be Belfast. You can keep your gnashing of teeth.

Not so long ago, one had a lot of security going from NI to GB - the new proposal is far less severe

otherwise NI will gradually be absorbed by ROI/EU - can't see the DUP or Loyalists wanting that in any way

there may be some gnashing of teeth but we have to control the border, we don't want Merkel or similar odering in 1 million undocumented refugees and the Isis brigade that hide amongst them - look how well that turned out

nothing will be 100% acceptable to all sides, hence some compromises will need to be made - and mine seems like the most palatable

This.is the problem.in a nutshell.

1. There must be borders.
2. There must not be borders.

Unless the UKGov does the sensible thing and become.a member of the EEA the problem is not solveable.

Martina888 Sun 03-Dec-17 19:13:46
Jacob Rees Mogg is the guy to listen to hear - and like I said in the other thread, it's up to the EU to choose whether to put a border in or not

Wrong, again.

JRM doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Every word from his mouth is pure bullshit and bluster designed to attract the political support of the most pig-ignorant, uneducated knee-jerk nationalists in England.

The UK will not be able to trade with WTO countries unless it polices its land border with the EU. If it refuses to police and maintain its border and goods may be transported across, then the UK will have to allow goods from everywhere else through too, tariff free.

The UK will not be able to trade with the EU unless it polices its land border to make sure that WTO goods do not cross back into the EU packaged as UK goods.

Do you think the UK wants to trade with other countries or blocs after Brexit? Or would you prefer everyone making do and mending, growing Victory gardens, and reverting to barter?

If none of this sounds palatable, then there must be a border.

Layla@

pure emotional rhetoric

And yet you haven’t answered a single one of my questions.

For those of us living in NI it is not ‘pure emotional rhetoric’ it is our greatest fear. We lived through the troubles, we don’t want any more. If you had any empathy for people in your own country then you would care about that too surely?

Not so long ago, one had a lot of security going from NI to GB

Not really. We traveled to the mainland at least once a year when I was a child and not one of my family had a passport, so your proposed solution seems much more extreme than what we had before.

Martina "pure emotional rhetoric"

You simply haven't got a clue. Not one clue.

A £50 billion payout is fine and nothing said. But this issue is the rock upon which UK may perish.

Bet they never thought of it at the time, but Ireland did, and I am very proud of them for pushing the issue. It may all end in tears, but at least the Irish Government had planned ahead for this scenario, and is prepared to stand up for Irish and NI citizens on the issue. GFA is very important here.

Irish are streets ahead of their counterparts who are falling all over themselves spouting rubbish, blaming everyone else. Ah well. Should I be surprised.

May have already been posted, but this is an informative take on the demographic changes in Northern ireland
m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/demographics-are-shifting-towards-a-united-ireland-we-must-have-a-plan-35865222.html

Martina888 Sun 03-Dec-17 20:49:57
Ifailed:
nonsense, there is actually a similar non-border set up alreadey
ie. Switzerland/Germany etc., Norway/Sweden
Switzerland accepted the Four Freedoms.
Norway is in the EEA.

Croatia/Bulgaria etc.
LOL
Croatia and Bulgaria are not contiguous.

The only nonsense here is yours.

Martina
but there'll still be free movement for Irish
EU and non-Eu will be checked, so yes, there will be a border for those coming from Calais

Irish people are EU citizens. You speak of Calais as if it is the closest outpost of the EU, but in actual fact, once Brexit is accomplished, whether hard or soft, the EU will start at the outer limits of NI. At the border with Ireland in other words.

Not sure why you still do not understand that Ireland and the EU are one and the same and that there is nothing to stop anyone from countries in the continental EU arriving in Ireland and proceeding straight to Larne and on to Stranraer and from there to London or wherever just as there is nothing to stop people from Ireland doing that unless there is policing at the border where the UK and the EU meet.

This means that EU aka Ireland and non-EU aka 'rest of the world' will all have to be checked when traveling to NI from Ireland.