What do people think is most likely to happen with the irish/UK Border Part 2.

[cathyclown]

OK I took it upon myself in my arrogance. Nah, just enjoyed all the views whether we agreed or not, it has been very interesting.

So carry on folks. Link below to the original thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a3096781-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-Irish-UK-border?msgid=73760649#73760649

*Martina888^ Sun 03-Dec-17 21:00:00

MaryZ:
fairly sure the DUP can be made to see the sense in this, as it won't actually be a border, just an ID check, that ALREADY exists, ie. if you get on a plane

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

You are on glue.

Martina
worst case scenario: We can do it without DUP support

Do you understand that they have a paramilitary wing, hun?

par·a·mil·i·tar·y
ˌperəˈmiləˌterē/
adjective
adjective: paramilitary; adjective: para-military

1.
(of an unofficial force) organized similarly to a military force.

Martina888 Sun 03-Dec-17 21:08:48

treaclesoda wrote: 'And if a N Ireland citizen doesn't have a passport? They are not allowed to travel freely within the UK? Despite living in the UK and being a UK tax payer etc?'

Other official forms of ID could easily be made acceptable for this purpose

There really is no arguing with stupid, Bearstrikesagain.

No there isn't mathanxiety ; just ignore it, that hurts more.

KennDodd Sun 03-Dec-17 21:22:01

Hi sorry to ask as it was probably explained on the last thread somewhere, but why is saying Eire offensive? I always thought it was just Ireland in the Irish language (Irish Gaelic?) So using it if you're not speaking Irish just made people look a bit of a prat but no more than that. A bit like saying Deutschland instead of Germany when speaking English. I didn't know the word had history or what that history is.

The name Ireland was adopted in 1937 in Ireland. After the declaration of the Republic in 1949 the right wing British press used Éire because they thought using Ireland would imply support for the idea of an all island political unit, as the whole island is also called Ireland. The trend continued to such an extent that you can identify the attitude of a newspaper or commentator towards Ireland and Irish people simply by whether the word Éire is used.

'Éire' was also mispronounced as 'eerie', 'airy' and various other clangers, which was seen by Irish people as implying that the Irish language was incomprehensible, unpronounceable, weird, and completely alien.

Martina888 Sun 03-Dec-17 21:35:56

plantbatman:
do you have a viable idea for this, ie. one that would keep the borders between NI/GB/ROI fully open whilst also giving the UK control over EU mass immigration to it

I have a viable idea!
Remain in the EU and stay out of Schengen.

This may come as news to you - I get the impression you do not keep up with current affairs and that you gleaned your knowledge of Brexit issues from the side of buses - but the UK always had control over immigration.

It just neglected to control immigration, because despite what UKIP insists, immigration is necessary in order to keep the economy buzzing along.

itsstillonlythursday.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/masked-british-terrorists-in-ireland-stage-a-propaganda-event-for-the-camera-one-holds-an-rpg7-rocket-launcher.jpg?w=620

Here is a photo for you, Martina.

Can you guess what organisation they belong to, and who they vote for?

And if, god forbid, violence were to return it won't necessarily be confined to the island of Ireland. I remember being stuck on a tube in a tunnel for 45 mins as there was a suspect package at the next station. But apparently there is no price too high for brexit.

This thread is a shitstorm.

Everyone but Martina knows what the problem is.

Everyone but her realises that the simple solution (either a border on land or a border in the Irish sea) won't work.

The really worrying thing is that it seems that a significant proportion of the population of "mainland" UK (probably meaning England) thinks like her - including half the government [bewildered]

I find it really odd that I (a normal middle-aged woman with no political aspirations at all) know - and care - more about the outcome of Brexit negotiations than some British MPs.

To be fair, it can be a bit of an echo chamber on this thread! I hold my hand up to so mea culpa there.

Martina may not realise the nuances of it all, but it is interesting to read opposite views (and shoot them down too). That's good. It means for me anyway that I am not totally stupid that I didn't think of this or that.

Anyway, tomorrow will be interesting. Phone calls with Vlad and a boozy lunch (naturally) with Junker the Drunker as he is known in Luxembourgois parts.

Maryz you've just articulated exactly how I feel. I'm not at all politically minded but I'm so worried about what's happening with Brexit and the effect it will have on NI (and Ireland economically but I presume that will all come right in the end and that the politicians will look after that.)

I think TM has no respect for the people of NI-APART from needing DUP support- and until this week didn't even understand what impact this was going to have. How can I, a political innocent, know more than British politicians about the impact of this? God help us all. This is shit. And at the risk of being deleted, Martina you are a fool.

Ironically, cathy, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back on the first thread either I or someone else (I can't remember) offered up the idea that the only way of sorting this was to have a border in the Irish sea. We recognised the problems but thought it might (in some form) work.

That was shot down by politicians in the Westminister and NI, as well as lots of people on the threads.

We then all moved on to "there doesn't seem to be a solution, wouldn't it be nice if May came up with one, any sort of one, even just a sort of an offer of some kind of solution".

And now, a week later, we get an obvious staunch Brexiter saying "you are all stupid, the EU and Ireland are blocking this, we can just have a border in the Irish sea but not call it a border, oh no, we'll call it a sort of a check of some sort )

It's gone full circle. And gone nowhere [sigh]

Seems like there is no border agreement even after the cosy chat between Vlad and TM tonight.

Tomorrow should be interesting.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/03/may-take-charge-brexit-talks-crucial-brussels-meetings-northern-ireland-border-issue

maryz.

I feel your pain with you. But onwards and upwards. At least the Irish Government is on the ball.

Well now we know where Martina has been getting her info from.

@KennDodd No one in Ireland calls Ireland Eire. It's written on our stamps and maybe on government paper but it's not a spoken word.
To simplify it, there's Northern Ireland and Ireland.
It was called Eire by UK media and UK government officials as a refusal to use the word Ireland as this might infer the whole island. It doesn't happen so much anymore. I hardly ever hear it except by unenlightened, or older generations.
It can be offensive to Irish people. Imagine if people from another country refused to use the name UK, or England or something and gave it their own name.

To sum it up, Eire and southern Ireland are wrong, it's just called Ireland!

There has been a noticeable upswing in references to Eire - look at this lovely gem posted just now on BBC HYS,

^175. Posted by engineer-neil on
Just now
Irish border is EU problem, not ours. We can unilaterally allow people/goods into NI, and it's then up to EU to decide what they do on their side. If it wasn't for the EU protectionist racket that is the customs union, none of this would be a problem. Simple solution all round is if Eire leave EU as well, but they won't because they are addicted to the free cash. Typical of the Irish.^

Engineer Neil sounds like a charmer

Engineer Neil sounds like a typical brexitier, so a bit of casual racism is to be expected.

Still, once we are out of the EU and into the clutches of that bastion of democracy the WTO, I'm sure Neil and his fellow travellers will be more than happy to take orders from their new masters, the Chinese.

Some news starting to come out I think,

From Faisal Islam's twitter feed,

More
Phillipe Lamberts MEP tells me that the draft text on Ireland agrees “full alignment” within N. Ireland on those parts of single market and customs union that might otherwise lead to hard border...

twitter.com/faisalislam/status/937648049668595713

Breaking news. The UK has conceded that Single Market and CU will apply to NI. Thus a seamless border.

Border is where now?

DUP must be raging. As I said, interesting times ahead

"The UK has conceded to EU negotiators that there will be no divergence of the rules covering the EU single market and customs union on the island of Ireland post Brexit, according to a draft negotiating text seen by RTÉ News."

www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/1204/924815-single-market-eu-negotiations/

Oh, wow, we are back to the very beginning of the last thread

May has realised that a customs border must lie in the Irish Sea.

The DUP will go bonkers.

May has chucked the Northern Ireland baby out with the European bath or chucked it under the bus; pick your analogy.

addicted to the free cash

Ffs the ignorance towards this issue from those that have an opinion is mind-blowing.

Sure why wouldn't Ireland follow the UK out of the EU, seems the simplest solution. Let's not give a flying fuck what Ireland wants. The people of the Empire have spoken...

Neil, you sound like a fucking idiot.