What do people think is most likely to happen with the irish/UK Border Part 2.

[cathyclown]

OK I took it upon myself in my arrogance. Nah, just enjoyed all the views whether we agreed or not, it has been very interesting.

So carry on folks. Link below to the original thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a3096781-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-Irish-UK-border?msgid=73760649#73760649

What littlegreyauditor said. You are so on the wrong thread.

In order to trade with the EU you have to comply with their trade rules. The Channel Islands are subject to EU regulations (eg consumer rights) even though they are not in it. The Guernsey Parliament and Government are so small, and their bargaining strength so weak, the basically have to rubber stamp EU regs into legislation without significant scrutiny.

When the GDPRegs kick in countries all over the world (including the UK post-Brexit) will be subject to them and will have to incorporate into local law to enforce them.

We will not return to a state of Absolute Sovereignty when we leave the EU, as long as we trade with them.

So much of the arguments for Leave are based on fantasy.

I'm calling troll on Martina.

I don't believe there is a person in the world who is that stupid.

Her original idea (checks at the Irish sea) was blown to pieces by May (British government) and the DUP (staunch Brexiters). But she blames Ireland and the EU.

Her latest idea: "a good idea would be for ROI to leave EU as well".

Who the fuck does she think she is?

Could everyone report Martina, and maybe MNHQ will get rid of her and all her other aliases (all of whom seem to finish with 888000 or combinations thereof).

Ah, right, so Martina is also Julie?

That’s a relief, frankly. I feel weary at the thought that there’s two of them.

I'm a staunch Brexiter I suppose...

However, the idea that Ireland would even begin to contemplate leaving the EU is completely nonsensical to me - it's not something that would have entered my head at all.

Please don't bundle all Brexiters up under the same umbrella, it does no one any good to ascribe sweeping values & judgements onto the different 'sides'.

I'm assuming so, there can't surely be two of them.

Reported her. It's just not necessary to be so goady.

And I'm going to ignore any more dim nonsense.

I don't see how there can be because we are back to two options

What happens if we just leave the border as it is?

No checks at the land borders.

CTA stays in place (is rather moot with air travel anyway as the airlines insist on ID)

What would happen?

Surely a bit of smuggling (assuming that's what people are worrying about) is a lot less of an issue than war starting up again?

I'm not trying to be inflammatory here but I am really struggling to understand why customs/passport checks are more important than keeping the peace.

As for eirexit - the Irish Times reported on it last December - it's been suggested by a few Irish people, it's not been dreamt up by Brexiteers.

I personally think it is all a game with May and Foster. Who would not have known the potentials here FGS before May's meeting with Junker.

Are they not allowed to check Sm or news media or missives from the Boss in Westminster on a Sunday or what.

Rubbish stuff. I am guessing this is a ploy.

Hope it all works out though, it needs to really.

If it is a game then I’m sure the negotiation will involve money. That always seems to work when dealing with the DUP.

Arlene Foster is sacrificing the good economical sense that no border creates for her personal political beliefs. Basically she believes that a special status for NI would make her less British and bring us in NI closer to being the dreaded IRISH!!! Heaven forbid!!
She is cutting off her nose to spite her face because she knows better than anyone that a hard border will effect the free flow of trade and damage NI economically.

and yet she persists....typical DUP stuff right there

oh and on another note, to a previous poster who said that all people above the border are British. We most certainly are not. I was born in Belfast, I am Irish, I hold an Irish passport and I am just as irish as anyone born in Dublin and just as much say in our future!

iprefer yes you have it right when you say 'a few people' have suggested eirexit. I'd estimate maybe 6 or 7 people in a county of 4 million. There is no political appetite for exiting in Ireland whatsoever.

What happens if we just leave the border as it is?
No checks at the land borders

There is the immigration thing for a start. A major plank of the Leave vote was getting control of our borders. Not having a border between NI and ROI means checks for anyone originating from Belfast port and Airports. This is what the DUP object to, a separate regime for NI.
Additionately it gives a back door for sub standard goods like chlorinated chicken getting into the EU.

I think also that not having checks where there are potentially different tariffs gives us problems with trading under WTO rules.

I've got a feeling that today was an exhibition of politicking by TM & UK side tbh.

The reaction from Arlene seemed genuine, and the problem appears to be 'sloppy wording' - there's no way TM & co would have 'accidentally' neglected to consult with the DUP, and the EU & LV appeared to have been wrong-footed too, in that their perplexed reactions seem genuine too.

I'd put money on this being a deliberate ploy: TM putting on a bit of political theatre to drive home to EU that her govt is precarious & using the precariousness to her advantage.

It just doesn't feel quite right somehow, there's no way this was as 'unexpected' as it appears on the face of it.

What I mean is that it was 'unexpected' to everyone other than TM & co, if you see what I mean?

Also, Nicola Sturgeon, Sadiq Khan etc behaving predictably wrt not countenancing a special deal for NI gave weight to TM & UK teams warnings that a different deal for NI won't be possible due to factors other than DUP as well.

I'm perhaps giving TM much more credit for cunningly Machiavellian, low-down, dirty politicking than she deserves though!

Theresa May was publicly humiliated by Arlene Foster today. She went to Brussels today as PM and ended up looking like a person with no authority, an incompetent messenger.

Surely the only thing she can do now is resign. Does she really think she can limp on?

No matter who is in cahoots with Arlene Foster, it must be plain to TM that she is a laughing stock now.

Wrt Irexit. The IT published a piece by Nigel Farage in which he explained to the Irish how Ireland leaving the EU would be a great idea. This went down well, obv.

Maryz I think Theresa May actually is that thick.
FannagBeg Mon 04-Dec-17 19:06:24
I didn't think Theresa May would play Jenga - so ineptly and unnecessarily - with our lives. I actually thought she had a little bit of moral integrity and some filters.
But no. She is the most dangerous disappointment in modern politics...since Blair and his Iraq crusade.
I agree 100%, except for the disappointment bit. I did not expect anything from her.

I don't think she understands the first thing about her position vis a vis the DUP - illustrated today, or the position of the Conservative Party in the context of British elections - illustrated by the last GE, or the position of the UK in Brexit talks - from the decision to invoke A50 to today.

I do not think that what SF said was inflammatory. It was a reminder that there are more than just Unionists living in Northern Ireland, a salutary reminder.
Layla75 Mon 04-Dec-17 17:20:58
Arlene Foster has never had a mandate for the stance she has pushed- despite the DUP majority in the elections- N Ireland voted remain. She should always have been representing the wishes of our electorate but she can’t be described as a democrat despite the party name

I think Arlene Foster was trying hard not to spit actual nails today at her press conference. I think she was furious. The dig at the Irish government seeking to change the terms of the GFA was uncalled for and demonstrably a lie. It is Brexit that jeopardises the GFA, and we all know that the DUP never supported it.

Martina, you are Arlene Foster, admit it.