What do people think is most likely to happen with the Irish/UK border?

[coffeclub]

What is the most likely solution?

The Alliance and the SDLP don't get any votes because, despite all the effort that has gone into trans-community organisation, when push comes to shove every single person living in the North of Ireland has been forced, pretty much from birth, to pick a side.

While there is segregated schooling I don't see that changing. Neutral or middle of the road politicians get no support.

But I don't have an answer. I know if I lived there I would be forced to pick a side. If my family wanted to stay part of the UK I would vote DUP knowing that is the only way to achieve that (and haven't the DUP done well; they are in a fantastic position at the moment). If my family felt fully "Irish" I would support Sinn Fein, especially now when we are all pretending that the current lot had nothing to do with IRA violence.

Laurie, your final sentence sums it up.

Stephen Farry of Alliance has been discussing this on Twitter today (@ StephenFarryMLA). Some quotes:

Interesting+ encouraging. Enhanced devolution, NOT change in NI constitutional position. Must be full Single Market, compliance with EU law needs to be guaranteed + something needs sorted on Customs Union. See Alliance proposals.

Theoretically, this could be done directly by Westminster in relation to the devolved space. If done through any functioning Assembly, then could be legal requirement to comply with EU law. In any event, ensuring full compliance is overwhelmingly in NI economic interest.

Re today’s speculation re NI in Brexit talks, lots of people are expressing scepticism over how it can work with a dysfunctionalAssembly. But for anyone who supports a special anything, it will in practice involve more devolved powers. So sorting Brexit & Stormont go hand in hand

Obviously, he's much better infomed than any of us, but I can't say I share his optimism.

I simply don't believe him. I don't believe there is an answer, and being all optimistic about it doesn't change that.

I think the UK negotiators are leaving it all as long as possible, and then when it emerges there is no solution on the eve of the December summit they will then demand to push on anyway, and blame everyone but themselves for the impasse.

I think the UK negotiators are leaving it all as long as possible, and then when it emerges there is no solution on the eve of the December summit they will then demand to push on anyway, and blame everyone but themselves for the impasse.

Bingo. Sigh.

That just about sums it up!

I get a feeling that there is some agreement afoot. Don't ask me why it's just instinct. There hasn't been a peep out of the Irish Government really for days about this. But Ian Paisley and others are spouting god knows what.

Anyway, today Simon Coveney has been appointed Deputy PM with responsibility for Brexit along with his Foreign Office/Affairs brief. He is very intelligent and polished, so we shall see what happens.

Time is getting very close. I think there is something afoot.

The way the British government are behaving over this is nothing short of disgraceful.

That's one clear thing coming out of this. A realisation of just how incompetent & dishonest the British government can actually be. Respect for them in Europe has fallen off a cliff.

That's one clear thing coming out of this. A realisation of just how incompetent & dishonest the British government can actually be. Respect for them in Europe has fallen off a cliff.

I've just seen the link below on another Brexit thread

Foreign Office tells Irish government to ignore Boris Johnson

Jesus

The only "solution" I can see that would be immediately acceptable to the EU and Ireland (and incidentally about half of the North) would be for NI to remain in the customs and free travel area. If that's agreed by the British government, though, the DUP will walk out and the government will fall.

Now I come to think of it, there's a solution. The current government falls, it's all put on hold until a general election, Brexit is inevitably delayed .....

As an aside, given a face-off between Coveney and Johnson, I can see old Boris waffling and promising all sorts of "it'll be ok" pats on the head. And Coveney taking no shit.

the DUP will walk out and the government will fall

GOOD! I hate the Tories and what they’re doing to the UK but getting into bed with the DUP was beyond awful.

I hope that's it Maryz. For TM to put her governing deal on the line for this issue would make my opinion of her rise a LOT.

For now I feel as if every English person should make a formal apology to Senator George Mitchell; who at the request of his President put years of his life into the talks that made the GFA possible, and whose efforts we have pissed up the wall through weakness, arrogance and unreconciled colonialist assumptions.

The DUP are loving this new power, they won't give it up easily,

Some English people are as upset about the GFA as the Irish are, annandale.

At this stage I've come to the conclusion that most English people don't know what the GFA is, and that many of them don't actually realise that NI isn't part of Ireland already.

MaryZ You might enjoy this piece...

www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/the-irish-are-just-making-trouble-because-they-lost-a-bit-petty-isn-t-it-really-1.3310033?mode=amp

How we see ourselves is as a vibrant, relevant, culturally distinct country, rightly proud of our hard won independence; a global player possessed of not inconsiderable negotiating clout, with views and interests that demand to be taken into account by Britain, the EU, and the wider world.

How they see us is as a small, damp and slightly disobedient outpost of the United Kingdom. At best, we represent an occasionally useful negotiating tool; at worst a version of England with more rain, worse castles and more favourable tax rates.

That's the view of a fair few people on this thread, isn't it?

And if it's the view of a few posters it's probably the view of a lot of people who wouldn't bother posting on an "Irish" thread.

As someone from NI I'd like to say a huge thank you to the very knowledgeable posters on here particularly math and maryz. The border issue was completely over my head I didn't understand the complexities at all it feels good to be armed with such knowledge!

What talk is there of it up where you are Mumguilt? I worry that the news is imparted from both extremes of the political divide with each community only trusting the information given out by their own "side" if you see what I mean.

And they can both be so convincing. If I didn't know better I'd believe everything Ian Paisley said. He just sounds so sure of himself. Ditto for everything Sinn Fein are saying. They sound as though they care about the country and not just their "half" of the community.

Personally I don't trust either side as far as I could throw them, but that's easy for me to say.

Maryz thankfully I never was forced to pick a side, even though both my parents were from a Catholic background, I was sent to an integrated and then a Quaker school as they didn't want to inflict the kind of education that they had on me.

There was a general election before the GFA was finally agreed and I can distinctly remembered both my mother and myself voting for David Trimble of the UUP, even though we were both SDLP supporters. We did this to make sure that he kept his seat in parliament and as head of the UUP - we recognised that he was the best chance for a peace agreement.

I don't think that people like us were unique but I will be honest, I could never have brought myself to vote for the DUP or Sinn Fein because of their history.

There has been a big increase in integrated education but as I understand it this has been largely adopted by the middle classes when it is the working classes that would benefit most from it - they have suffered the most from being the cannon fodder for the politicians and terrorist organisations.

I agree with you; those likely to access integrated education are probably those who are less polarised in the first place :(.

It must be hard to vote for anyone these days in NI - there are hardly any middle-of-the-road candidates, and those who are there are inevitably going to lose to one hard-liner or another.

Hardly surprising, but for all the those up thread posting ignorant nonsense about how "we" can just walk away: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42179387

TM went to bed with this lot, and has now woken up with smelly damp sheets.

Who do they think "we" is?

There is a great piece on BBC news Facebook page about the border in one northern Ireland town. It really shows how this whole issue will impact the people living on both sides. At the moment ' the border' is just a bump on the road but everyone there remembers what it was like in the past.