What do people think is most likely to happen with the Irish/UK border?

[coffeclub]

What is the most likely solution?

Whoya potential political instability in Ireland is not an issue.

Julie the CETA with Canada started in 2009 and was only completed this year.. And there are restrictions to the agreement, take note. That is 8 years negotiations.

So March 2019 might mean FTAs with other countries will also take a long time.

Or rather was not an issue for companies deciding on where to relocate

Major international companies seem to think it is........

Our proximity to Britain and membership of the EU has made us lucrative. Now? Not so much.

Cathy, CETA removed 98% of tariffs and they have different home regulations, so there was more to negotiate on the trade front. What we need now is no emotional responses like 'you chose to bugger off so we are going to punish you' because that hurts people who get no say in these negotiations.

Genevieva,

I bet there are no chlorinated chickens etc coming in from Canada.

That agreement is with the EU not UK post Brexit though, so it will have to be renegotiated re standards etc.

But maybe standards will be lowered if only UK is involved bilaterally.

Is that such a great thing though?

whosafraidofabigduckfart
Martina,
Brexit happened because people wanted ‘control of their borders’ and to stop people coming into UK especially refugees. How will your plan stop this ?***

Work permit system, and the need to show passport when looking for work, opening bank account or getting on a plane etc..

Well, it appears May & Co. have cut a leaving deal - somewhere in the region of £50bn to leave the EU but could be up to £89bn.

Unfortunately given the lack of progress on the other fronts, I can't see us negotiating trade dealers any time soon

Whoyagonna Tue 28-Nov-17 20:41:23

Martina, for the umpteenth time, Ireland is not like those countries. There has been 800 years of British occupation, then persecution, then Irish paramilitary war against said occupation.*

buy my and your point covers this, ie. Irish passport holders can mover about freely as can those with residency rights to NI

Maryz:

yes, the EU did casue this mess by not allowing us to control our own borders

@Martina, you make it sound like there is no human trafficking and everyone applies for jobs in a nice and legal way.
There is already human trafficking in NI and illegal employment. I imagine this would be increased if the UK walks away and says 'meh, it's up the Irish to sort out'.

the EU did casue this mess by not allowing us to control our own borders

Thats kind of the whole point of the EU... No borders between EU countries...

That is a UK issue not an EU issue though Cathy. I agree its a mess and I wouldn't bet on Canadian chickens being any different from American chickens. If that happens, buyers will have to vote with their wallets, but I agree, one of the great things about living in the EU is the high standard of food quality and animal welfare. And good food is relatively good value. Try buying unpasteurised cheese in the US - it is really hard to find. I wouldn't live there because of the cheese situation alone! People don't always appreciate what they have until they lose it.

illegal stuff will have to be dealt with separately - this is not epsecially relevant to the official negotiations

It'sallgonnabefine@

that's the prob with EU - ie. too idealistic

Even the liberal Dave Cameron tried getting some deal on this and was 100% rebuffed - it's the EU's fault here

people do not want uncontolled mass immigration

That took seven years - the UK has less than 1
The UK already has convergence with the EU, unlike Canada had. So a deal would easily be done in 1 year, if we actually wanted one.

illegal stuff will have to be dealt with separately - this is not epsecially relevant to the official negotiations

Of course it is. How do you prevent "illegal stuff" crossing borders if.youndont have one?

But Martina, how will the UK know that the person crossing the 'border' (that I, and others of my community, don't recognise) unless passports aren't being checked?

It's easy to say blithely in response that passports won't need to be checked, as no-one Britain/the north of Ireland doesn't want will go to the bother of entering the country via ROI. But what if someone does, and then commits a violent crime? Or many people do? The right wing press will be howling for our border to be protected, like they did in the run up to the referendum.

Which is why the EU want it in writing that UK treaty obligations under the GFA will be upheld by U.K. government, and that no border controls will be imposed at any stage.

that's the prob with EU - ie. too idealistic

I'm confused - I thought you had said people should have free movement between the UK and the EU (NI and I)

Even the liberal Dave Cameron tried getting some deal on this and was 100% rebuffed - it's the EU's fault here

That's because the EU aren't going to change their rules, their entire.ethos, (that work very successfully for them) on the say so of a small recalcitrance country.

people do not want uncontolled mass immigration

Aren't you the one saying the UK doesn't need a border?

^yes, the EU did casue this mess by not allowing us to control our own borders" - so now you do want borders? I'm really confused. I thought the entire argument is that Britain don't need borders, Ireland and the EU do, so they should pay for them [baffled]

This is sounding more and more like Trump/wall.

Whoya, eh, no they didn't. Lack of school places, houses, restaurants and theatres as well as office space, hotel space and accessibility were bigger factor than fears the government was going to collapse/ SF were going to orchestrates a coup / Ireland was going to fall off the edge of the world. You really don't know your arse from your elbow. As they say in Ireland.

@it'sallgonnabefine:

the same way that any other country that lacks a physical border does
ie. how does France and Belgium stop illegal stuff crossing - this isn't just about having fences and walls, there are such things as policemen and customs officers etc.