What do people think is most likely to happen with the Irish/UK border?

[coffeclub]

What is the most likely solution?

I have my suspicions that Whoya is in fact Kate Hoey.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/brexit-grossbritannien-will-mit-eu-handelspolitik-vor-irland-frage-klaeren-a-1180400-amp.html&ved=0ahUKEwjp4eCw8N_XAhVKOMAKHVwlCtEQFghbMAo&usg=AOvVaw01xIDI5opHVnx51Owl_p0C&ampcf=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">It's news in Germany too

This thread is batshit, but no surprise as many of the opinions I'm hearing IRL are too.

To answer the OP, there is no solution. Even a 'soft' border will be a disaster. And the same politicians who say that would be okay, also believe that a no-deal Brexit is a fine idea.
I am really fearful for the fate of the GFA at the moment.

Whizziwig you are a fantasist (as well as racist). The implications for the GFA have been continually discussed since way before the referendum.

I'm hoping you typed my name by mistake Somerville??

Sorry, whoyagonna is the fantasist/racist, not whizzywig - c&p fail.

Phew

Interesting that Whoyagonna goes from calling Irish people 'them' to claiming to be Irish.

I heard that Hatie K is out of a job. Maybe killing time here?

FaithHopeCharityDesperation Mon 27-Nov-17 08:06:17
Your response also indicates that migrants of the 'we don't mean you - you're all right' variety are ok to you. NI & Ireland are not the Calais Jungle

Math, you are a consistently disingenuous poster who wilfully twists other people's words to fit into whatever agenda you have decided to assign to them.

Don't do it to me.

Ok so you tell me exactly what you intended by differentiating between sets of migrants? Tell me what you have in mind when you say 'Calais Jungle'.

You were the only person in the exchange you referenced to mention the Calais Jungle, and you did so in the context of a general remark on migration/immigration. It must have some significance for you.

Math- How sure are you that a united Ireland would be against the wishes of the people of Ireland?
Julie - Because the party pushing for a united Ireland Sinn Féin has never got a majority in either NI or ROI. And polls (as reliable as they arent) are no where near it.

SF is not the only party by a long shot that would welcome a united Ireland. Historically, all Irish political parties have wanted a united Ireland. Over 40% of eligible voters in Ireland stayed at home rather than vote for or against the proposed amendment to the constitution that dropped the clauses in the constitution in which Ireland claimed sovereignty over NI, that allowed the govt to ratify the GFA. There was a good deal of disquiet over dropping the claim. People saw it as the best shot at peace, but...

Julie8008 Mon 27-Nov-17 10:10:14
And a trusted partners system would work fine for agricultural products. No physical needed. sorted
Are you talking about the whole of the UK being a trusted partner of the EU? Because if you are, that would severely restrict the sort of trade agreements the UK could strike with countries outside the EU. Is that acceptable to anyone in Westminster?

Or are you talking about NI being a trusted partner of the EU/Ireland, effectively putting the border in the Irish Sea?

Habanero
it's funny to blame the UK for this. The UK didn't "cause" this. There was a referendum and the people want out. As a country with self determination, sure that is our right

'The people'? What 'people' are we talking about here?

There are four countries in the UK and only two of them voted for Brexit - it seems only two of them have the right to self determination when it all boils down.

One of the countries that voted to Remain will now deal with the full brunt of the economic fallout and also the social dislocation and political upheaval that comes with the re-establishment of a border where for a precious twenty years there was none.

Habanero
What "thorough education" did their need to be? What do you envision?

After the Farage poster and the £350million NHS bus and the 'Turkey is joining the EU' ads on Facebook (subtext - "and 74 million Turks will soon be living in your neighbour's shed"), you want to know what a proper campaign should have consisted of?

Also, our own internal words for the separate parts is literally "countries", except I think for NI, which is often referred to as a "province".

It's not an internal UK phrase with quaint origins lost in the swirl of time.

The term province is used because NI is composed of a dismembered Irish province, of which there are four - Ulster, Munster, Leinster and Connaught. The other part of the province of Ulster - three counties - is in Ireland. Initially, Edward Carson wanted the whole province to remain part of the UK but it was pointed out to him that the nationalist community of the province of Ulster as a whole would constitute a majority in any such arrangement, obv a big drawback to a political group intent on getting its own way. Eventually it was agreed between the Unionists and the the Lloyd George government that six counties would have a unionist majority and would have a stab at economic feasibility.

^^ Should be...
Also, our own internal words for the separate parts is literally "countries", except I think for NI, which is often referred to as a "province".
Habanero

Martina888 Mon 27-Nov-17 20:16:07
Come on , who's going to answer my new question: ie: why don't we just leave it as it is now but with with UK out of EU?

This is the proposal to effectively have the border located in the Irish Sea. It has already been proposed by the Irish government, but because the DUP doesn't want this, and because the Tory government depends on the DUP for its survival, it has been rejected and will not happen unless Theresa May grows a spine. I hope nobody is holding their breath waiting for that.

The problem is the fatal combination of the DUP plus Theresa May's self inflicted political weakness. The DUP are the tail that wags the dog.

The DUP hold all the cards here and they are going to dictate to the rest of the UK what Brexit will consist of and what the relationship with the EU will consist of afterwards - not just what will happen in NI. This is of course a far cry from "the people have spoken", "the will of the people" and all other BS in that vein. Democracy in the UK is a joke.

Interesting. I thought maybe leaving the EU would be preferable to a possible return to violence.

wtf?

Most of the violence was in the UK. I think it is admirable that the Irish government are concerned. They could just wash their hands and allow things to go belly up.

"I recall being the first person to ask what would happen with our border in the very early days of Brexit talks and it was the first time it had occurred to anyone. "

The Irish Times is heaving with articles about potential woes in the period 1 Jan-23 June 2016. I suspect Whoyagonna is a drunk American, tbh.

Whoya is Kate Hoey as somebody else said, same ignorant, arrogant approach. Even if she’s confused how many of ‘them’ (Irish) there are.

I suspect Whoyagonna is a drunk American, tbh.

Sounds like Trump tbh - I was the first to say that, I bigly said it for the first time, other people say it because I said it first, everybody copies me.

Most of the violence was in the UK.

And plenty carried out by British citizens. Indeed, even though IRA members would've regarded themselves as Irish, I presume the British government of the time regarded all NI citizens as very much British, so really the vast majority of the violence was perpetrated by British citizens on UK soil. Sounds more like a British problem than an Irish one!

Math, it's clear exactly what I meant, stop being deliberately obtuse & stop twisting words & making false inferences.

Thank you.

It frustrates me That there is such a focus on the EU when in reality the WTO, painted as a saviour, will be even more ruthless at ensuring its rules are complied with.

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/no-tariffs-post-brexit-on-eu-imports-would-break-wto-rules-1.3307267?mode=amp

It is quite distressing to me how poorly he British media are covering this.

Ultimately: the GFA limits what is possible. The WTO limits what is possible. Basic common sense limits what is possible, and the DUP limit what is possible.

All the Irish government, and then the EU, are really doing atm is saying they will not sweep this intractable issues under the carpet and they will not put the GFA at risk.

What is also astonishing to me is how little people are focusing on the DUPs role in this- most Brexit-supporting comments I've seen have acted like the EU are stopping there being a border at the Irish Sea. Ultimately it's the DUP.

This whole exercise has been the result of internal power consolidation from one insecure Tory leader after another. It is utterly ridiculous how cavalier they are.

It is quite distressing to me how poorly he British media are covering this.

I agree.

The Brexit press are glossing over the problematic areas, setting up the EU & remainers as the enemy, creating division in UK & are choosing overly-emotive angles over pragmatism.

The Remain press are over-hyping problematic areas, setting up Leavers as an enemy, creating division in the UK & also choosing overly-emotive strategies rather than pragmatism.

I'm a leaver who has always thought the pragmatic solution to leaving was to go straight for EEA/EFTA straight away - then ease towards a complete, clean break over a sensible time period.

I'm still a Brexiter, and I'm glad we're leaving, but that doesn't mean I'm overjoyed with the way it's playing out.

Ireland depends on agriculture

GDP of the ROI = $0.3 trillion
Services accounts for 70% of the GDP, industry 28% and agriculture only 1.6%, which also only employs 5% of the workforce. Ireland has moved a long, long way from when it was dependent on farming.