What do people think is most likely to happen with the Irish/UK border?

[coffeclub]

What is the most likely solution?

just illustrates why something as huge as this should never, ever have gone to a referendum- or at least if there was to be one, it should have been after an extended period of thorough education.

this sort of response is why people who are not genuine leavers (me), thoroughly understand the leaver position.

What "thorough education" did their need to be? What do you envision?

At least in Ireland if we vote the "wrong way" the government gets its act together, explains the reasoning, the pros and cons, opens up a discussion and lets us have another shot at it. I know some people don't like that, but we could vote the same way the second time, if we wanted to; we haven't so far

Hilarious. One of the reasons why we are all in this position. Democracy is just a laugh. If anything, the above two comments suggest why we absolutely needed a referendum.

You do realise it isn't a nation on its own? Technically it isn't and has never been a country, even. It's actually part of the UK.

I was writing from the context of England. I know it is part of the UK. It is also a part of the UK with a lot of autonomy, like the other countries of Scotland and Wales. But it can't be surprising that the possibility of a border there, especially when none of the parties want a border (ROI and UK), was on the mind of Englanders during the vote.

But user, it was all written down before the referendum, in A50. There's no use complaining that it is too vague and was unknown, it was pointed out before the vote that leaving would be enormously complicated and that two years wasn't nearly enough to negotiate leaving but people voted to leave anyway. Moreover, the government chose to trigger A50 without anything approaching a strategy in place and have been shamelessly bullshitting and finger-pointing ever since.

It is the EU insisting on a border there. Not Ireland and not the UK. Yet it's somehow the UK's responsibility.

How many times does this need to be explained? The EU, which includes the UK, manage their borders to maintain EUs standards on many things. Why do you think their are loads of people employed at EU ports like Felixstowe, Heathrow & Rotterdam, to name but 3, checking imports from around the globe?

The UK government has decided to enact article 50, they intend to leave the EU. They are still duty-bound to adhere to the standards that the EU impose on imports; standards & rules they have and are still happy to apply until 2019. They know that in less than 2 years they will leave and that the EU will still want to maintain these standards to protect their population.

You cannot maintain a land border between two sovereign nations like the UK and the ROI without co-operation, so the UK has to get involved in how this will work.

What is so complicated about this that the brexit supporters on here don't understand?

Do you think she would have referred to Wales as "another nation"?

would it have been outrageous to say that about Scotland given that approximately half of Scotland would like it to be so?

Best solution all round is for Labour to support the Tories in cancelling or posptoning Brexit. Wink smiley... ha ha, until they get their shit together and fully inform the "people who have spoken" of the complexity etc. of leaving. There is no complexity in staying is there?

UK has already lost the Medicines and Bank boards to Holland and France respectively.

That is a tongue in cheek comment BTW. Brexiteers can bite me now.

It is all so unreal that any comment could be a solution now!

I think England, Scotland, Wales and NI are all nations no?

lalalonglegs But it couldn’t have been written in A50 or there wouldn’t be all this problem with the Irish border, Everybody would now because it’s in writing, There was no exit policy for any country by the looks of it.

ROI and NI are in a unique geopolitical situation though, user ,owing to their history and as people living in NI can choose to have British, Irish or dual nationality. A50 is EU-wide and doesn't deal with the complexities of this unique situation. If Portugal, for example, voted to leave the EU, it would be much simpler for them to just put up a border between themselves and Spain. The border situation in the UK is far more complex.

I think England, Scotland, Wales and NI are all nations no?

Apparently not.

I think it's complicated. The external world thinks we are one country, except for sports, where we are between 3 and 4 countries, depending on the sport. But, NI and ROI have a close special relationship, as does ROI with the rest of the UK.

Also, our own internal words for the separate parts is literally "countries", except I think for NI, which is often referred to as a "province".

User, there is a massive difference between this border and the border between say, Italy and France. Namely, there wasn't 40 years of violence about that border, brought to an end, in part, by the GFA, which the UK seems happy to blithely ignore. Not least by the Government going into partnership with the DUP - I don't know how that hasn't been legally challenged.

You cannot maintain a land border between two sovereign nations like the UK and the ROI without co-operation, so the UK has to get involved in how this will work.

who is suggesting the UK not be involved? Of course it needs to be involved and help sort this.

who is suggesting the UK not be involved? Of course it needs to be involved and help sort this

Kate Hoey MP for one...

"Ms Hoey told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We're not the ones who are going to be putting up the physical border.

"If it ends up with a no deal, we won't be putting up the border - they'll have to pay for it, because it doesn't need to happen."

m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/brexiteer-hoey-compared-to-trump-for-suggesting-ireland-pays-for-border-36356848.html

Johnbuoy

Unfortunately this man's condescending, bullying and arrogant pronouncements probably reflect the feelings of many more than we think. This could turn nasty.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-ukip-ireland-weak-subservient-northern-ireland-border-gerard-batten-leo-varadkar-a8077676.html

We want a wall!! A great bigly wall!!! But we won’t pay for it!!!!

Where have I heard this before?!

I’m starting to think another Mass may be our best hope!

CraicMammy,

You are funny!

habenero20, yes I do think that in this context referring to Wales or Scotland as "another nation" would be outrageous. Your obvious view of this as being from the point of view of England and England alone is also outrageous. It's not complicated at all, the UK is one nation and is leaving the EU as one nation (why am I explaining this, ffs, why don't people who live there know?).

My comment about Ireland re-holding referendums was obviously tongue in cheek (hence the ) but there is an element of truth to it; most people are very ignorant politically speaking. In order to run referendums the onus is on the government to use truth and facts to educate, something that Cameron and his lot (and to an extent the Labour party and other political parties in the UK) failed to do.

The lies, double speak and "there, there, pat on the head, it'll all be ok" that is coming from the British government was bad enough before the decision was taken to leave. The fact that they are continuing with the same guff, and that people are still believing them is bizarre. That, coupled with the "I'm alright Jack" attitude of so many English people (as demonstrated on this thread) makes for a pretty sad state of affairs.

Is Kate Hoey stupid, or willfully ignorant? I can't decide.

Batten, otoh (see cathy's link) is neither ignorant nor stupid. He knows exactly what he is saying.

If I was a Brexiter I would be embarrassed to be represented by either of them.

Sadly I can't help thinking for a lot of Tories, the solution would be reunite Ireland and make the odd-balls of the NI politics the ROI problem, rather than theirs...

Northern Ireland doesn't elect Conservative or Labour MPs, so really most of Westminster doesn't give a shit. They care about winning, not really about the people involved. If the people don't vote for them or are likely to help their main competition, they don't care - go away quietly please.

Maryz

It might not be perfect, but the Coughlan and McKenna judgments have ensured that both sides of any referendum must be presented to the people, pros and cons, and 50% of airtime must also be given to each side AND the Government cannot exclusively spend public money on their side of the argument.

But because ROI must hold referenda due to its constitution they seem to be more au fait with what a referendum entails.

Referenda are rare in the UK. It does not have a written constitution like Ireland does.

I saw Kate Hoey on the politics programme bbc lunchtime. She was very ‘Ireland know your place’. Arrogant & ignorant.

I agree cathy, I think we are getting better with practice - most people actually know what they are voting for/against these days, and referenda (my spellchecker keeps changing it to referendums ) are less likely to be used as a vote to show that we are pissed off with the government.

(As an aside I'm a bit worried about equal weight for both sides for the Repeal of the 8th, but that's another thread).

I wonder how many voted for Brexit to give Cameron a kick up the arse without considering the real possibility it would go through.

Or, more correctly, without considering how it would work in practice if if it went through. Cameron and Boris certainly didn't think ahead.

Kate Hoey should just resign from LP and join UKIP tomorrow.

The concern is that Corbyn has been silent on her mutterings. I wonder why.

I can't really see what all the fuss is about - just have a border there like they do between countries in most of the world - all this talk of 'hard' , 'soft' etc.. is just ridiculous. No big deal here, just EU trying to get UK to not leave.