Charlie Gard 14

[GabsAlot]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rPmvGlNhA&app=desktop

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

I hope the post from Chris is a positive sign that he and Connie are trying to distance themselves from the more radical elements of the campaign.

I think a really big part of the problem is when taking something like this into the public eye, if you are not properly advised by experienced PR people and allow SM to be managed by sympathetic but fundamentally very invested family then it's very easy to find it backfiring.

Looking at the GOSH page, people are getting increasingly intolerant of the CA antics and denials. I've seen a lot of "call outs" in terms of screen shots showing vile messages on CA FB and videos of demonstrations in response to CA supporters saying "it's not us".

I would though equally say that threats and intimidation against C&C are equally vile and I find people who think this behaviour acceptable utterly beyond contempt - whichever point of view they support.

I hope C&C can step away from the media circus and spend time with Charlie this weekend. They must have seen the scan reports by now and I suspect given what was said in court, it must have been very hard reading.

cyas sos x

Yes we can talk about CA.

So we can't talk about CA, the parents or the legal issues

Well I think that's ultimately killed the thread then.

I don't understand though why all the censorship now after we've already had 13 threads discussing the above and it wasn't a problem?

I will third that Sos if that is even possible which I don't think it is at all.

And also don't speculate about legal issues.

I really think the die is cast now. The evidence has been handed into the judge. Threats may be pursued by the police, petitions, demonstrations will have no effect except for causing distruption and distress to other parents at GOSH.
I really, really hope that for their own sakes C&C can put all this to one side and spend some peaceful time with Charlie as whatever is happening now, unpleasant though it is, does not seem to have any relevance to what may happen in the future.

Yes, not sure I can post much anymore tbh.

Okay - hopefully this will be nothing that MNHQ will find offensive but who knows.

I remember at my little one's remembrance service my husband gave me a piece of jewellery (the last piece he has ever given me from that day to this).

It is a pendant with a corny verse on it but somehow tonight as each side of the debate gets more entrenched it seems appropriate:

HOPE: The future is full of doubt, indeed, but fuller still of hope.

I hope that Charlie is allowed to pass in peace and dignity to a better place.
I hope Charlie's family can find their own peace.
I hope the Judge makes his final ruling on Tuesday and whatever it is it will be final.
I hope that the staff at GOSH also find peace after this and that they continue on with the fantastic work they do.
I hope that after the decision and all the mayhem has calmed down we can all learn lessons from this both as individuals and as a society.
I hope that, one day, the research that I am proud to be a part of will help prevent a family going through the sorrow of losing a child too soon.
I hope I find my own peace after this case which has opened some very old wounds (which if I am honest I hadn't realised were quite so raw)
And finally I hope you all find your peace as well.

On a slightly nicer note I hope this thread is allowed to stay open and that my DS finds his blasted jumper that he has been turning the whole house upside down to find,

CG has just posted on CA to say that the spokesman isn't speaking for them and is making the situation worse!

Well he's absolutely right there. This does appear to be some sort of self styled saviour only after their own self promotion.

I'm guessing that the next thread (judgment day etc.) could be deleted.

It is getting far too heated not by all, but by the few who will always win with a few awful posts. That is sad, since the thread overall has been very compassionate and considered.

I would like to ask MNHQ to respect the many kind and informative posters here by trying their best to keep the thread(s) open. But I can understand the dilemma. thanks.

I think MNHQ are in a difficult situation. I don’t know what was in deleted posts so it could be that MNHQ are being over-cautious. But I guess the bottom line, and possibly what MNHQ have in mind, is that those two parents go home to a house that has an empty cot.

How did Alistair Seaton-Marsden get access to PICU to harass the parents to sign the petition?

No - all MNHQ have said is they don't want us to forget that this is a RL situation involving 2 parents and given the premise of this site we should be respectful of their situation.

They have not mentioned being unable to talk about legal matters, CA, press reports or anything else in the public domain.

We obviously can't breech court reporting restrictions about Charlie's doctors (not that anyone here would).

Equally there are plenty of posts about C&C expressing sympathy but also explaining why posters - some with direct experience don't agree with their stance. Disagreement that's civil yet sympathetic isn't parent blaming imho.

A UKIP candidate is self-serving dicknob, eh? Giving statements to media that aren't based in fact?
You're gonna have to narrow that down for me!!

Seriously though... C&C have been exploited by so many people with dubious motives, it is something else they really don't need right now. I hope that as of tonight they are getting advice from somewhere that is more helpful, and will help them to back off from social media.

I'm glad they did MaryZ (way behind!)

I suspect he seemed like an ally to start with then it quickly became apparent that he was a great clumsy self interested clod hopper over theirs and Charlie's cause.

It's quite understandable that a family in such a public position would attract some hangers on who turn out to be pretty undesirable.

I must be on a roll tonight....

I'm off on hols Monday (US) so will will be playing time zone catch up next week.

I really hope that C&C are starting to find the strength to accept the outcome on Tuesday, whatever the judge decides.

I think that, as a rule, if a SM post says something that we wouldn't be able to say here, it won't be allowed based on the fact that you're only quoting it from someone else. Doesn't matter if you are posting to heartily disagree, if it can't stand on its own, the post can't stand.

I guess there's a chance as it's just fb quoting (not eg published news quoting) that you could actually agree with the stance and be using this platform to spread it.

And, hopefully it's a good sign that at least one of C&C are waking up to some of the ultimate goadyfuckers who are hanging onto their cause.

Well I have put a post on the sun fb page because of the jaw dropping abusive comments about the parents. Honestly nothing anywhere near their viciousness has appeared on our threads. ( feels quite saintly in comparison, though I'm no saint)

Does anyone think that there will be different evidence presented on Monday just to delay court decision again?

Yes

The Kipper is clearly an opportunist who is using this sad situation to gain publicity and more support for his otherwise irrelevant party. UKIP have taken the viewpoint that the CG case is an example of government and medical collusion to justify poor decision making by the doctors keeping poor Charlie alive. Without that narrative, the media wouldn't be interested in UKIP, so it is a tactical move to align themselves with the family and against the establishment - despicable though the UKIP position is, I can see why they have done it. They are exploiting the grief and naivety of the family for political gain. Even Trump backed off.

But how did he gain access to PICU to harass the parents?

(Just to be clear I don't think that the doctors have made poor decisions, this was the gist of the UKIP article that was posted on FB recently).