Charlie Gard 14

[GabsAlot]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rPmvGlNhA&app=desktop

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

Hospital staff are receiving abusive messages and even death threats, I could never imagine having a child on life support but I also couldn't watch either of my boys suffer so terribly. Why do people jump in to something they are not directly involved in, these dr's and nurses are there to help children they shouldn't suffer because of a decision that hasn't even been made by them

I would just like to say that Alastair Seaton-Marsden is NOT our spokesperson

With regards to parents being harassed in the hospital, this was Alastair getting other distressed parents to try and sign a petition which we were unaware of and would not of agreed with had we been aware

Statement from Chris Gard

@BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings

I think that, as a rule, if a SM post says something that we wouldn't be able to say here, it won't be allowed based on the fact that you're only quoting it from someone else. Doesn't matter if you are posting to heartily disagree, if it can't stand on its own, the post can't stand.

I think that's a very good rule to thumb tbh.

Perhaps MN is asking us to be careful what we say because of the shit storm that seems to be going on.
GOSH and C&C have reported threats. The police are involved.
FB is buzzing with posts. Some reasonable and fair, some unpleasant, others trying to avert responsibility from themselves by blaming others.
CA knows about these threads and it is possible that they may quote, or misquote, us to avert blame or attention from themselves.
Not trying to play headmistress at all really.

I'm wondering whether someone in MNHQ erroneously thinks this case is sub judice or something. What is the difference between a post on a legal issue, and a post speculating about a legal issue? There have been threads in the past about numerous high profile court cases which have been full of speculation about what attitude the court might take, the evidence put before the courts, the motivation behind court findings and the like - and MN have had no problem with it. Likewise in this batch of threads there has been discussion about the findings the appeal courts might make in relation to the legal arguments put before them, and those post haven't been deleted..

Open justice is a central tenet of the constitution. The day we're forbidden to talk about legal issues in ongoing court cases where there is no court order forbidding reporting is the day we start moving into very dangerous territory.

My heart feels heavy for the parents. They are going through hell. Their family are not helping them at all. And poor Charlie is getting pushed into the background even further. Admittedly I have waned in and out of being sympathetic to c&C because of various factors that I thought was totally unnecessary, but they don't deserve what is happening to them, and yes they are no angels, and I too, think they are in such a state they don't know what they are saying. Maybe I read things wrong but that doesn't matter. The decision is only a couple of days away now and I.wish that these few days give them time to make memories with Charlie in private, with dignity and peace.

Did the sun Facebook post get deleted?

I will look.

iF we banned we need to move to facebook or another website to discuss it. Ill end up killing my dad over it if i have no where to rant.

Yes @11122aa I'll soon be for the divorce courts if these threads close and I have to go back to ear bashing DH about it.

We set up a FB group to discuss the Dax baby case when the threads kept getting deleted on here. It got too frustrating, but that in itself attracted a lot of criticism.

It's entirely to C&C's credit that they have realised that association with UKIP man is harmful, and we can only hope that it dawns on them that the same applies to the CA website, the sales of wristbands and air freshener, and especially the anti-abortion pastor. Chris Gard seems considerably more mature than his sister.

I was going to suggest a private fb group if these threads go.

I'm upset that People online have taken the GOSH logo, captioned it for their own cause and are posting it on social media. I can't articulate why, for personal reasons, but i find it massively insulting and a slap in the face. I need to step away from this all.

Please delete this MNHQ if you feel it isn't inkeeping. Sorry I'm not sure what stands.

Peace to Charlie, his family, all the GOSH staff and the children and their families being treated there.

All posts in the last 4 hours have been deleted from the sun fb page. Thank goodness for that they were horrendous. Mine was also deleted. I basically said what awful posts they were and that although I didn't agree with a lot of what the parents have done there is no way they deserve that type of abuse. I also offered advice to c&c to come off all social media turn off their phones so they cannot get abused and to have some time with their son away from all this vileness.

im on fb if anyon wants to a me

If by any chance (and I hope not) the threads are culled, where do people like myself go, no FB no Twitter.

And no, I will not sign up to either, so I guess I will be at the mercy of MSM yikes!

add*

If you decide to do fb page please let me know with private message so I can join please.

I'm sure the Gard's lawyers have stepped in this evening. I hope they are helping and advising them. It seems they could really have been stronger and on top of this kind of thing (advising them on controlling spokespeople and hangers-on) all along.

FB group is a good idea. Was thinking of that.

If you decide to do fb page please let me know with private message so I can join please.

And me, please. I've been following these threads since the beginning.

@rosiejosie there's always the Pistonheads forums. I noticed they have a multitude of parking threads over there too!

Ceto I reckon their legal team worded that statement. Only.my opinion.