Charlie Gard 14

[GabsAlot]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rPmvGlNhA&app=desktop

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

If C&C are getting threats why are they not reporting that to police? Why write on GOSH's FB post? GOSH hasn't even said it was family encouraging this (though looking at CA FB page and some of the shares by Laura Gard we know she only moderates the comments which doesn't support her cause).

The Sun:

"Families have been harassed and discomforted while visiting their children, and we have received complaints of unacceptable behaviour even within the hospital".

So, someone who has access INSIDE the hospital is behaving in an unacceptable manner?!

When this kind of mess happens in an LA, there's a 'lessons learned' type meeting afterwards to look at changing procedures and policies. I wonder if NHS and the judicial system have similar?

I wonder if this hadn't been so sensitive a case and a judge trying to treat a vulnerable party with such care that a more robust approach would have been used? Surely a lot of this is technically contempt of court?

Tonight, all I can think is; where's is sweet baby Charlie in all this? IMO, this stopped being about him a while ago.

I completely agree. As another poster has said, I hope C&C are finding time to be with Charlie this weekend. I can't even imagine what they're going through emotionally, I can barely bring myself to think about how scared I'd be feeling in their position, so I hope they have been able to spend some quality time as a family with Charlie today. I feel nervous about that the Court Case will bring, I just have a bad feeling about it all.

Here's the thing, if Connie truly believes there is a proper chance for Charlie, can you blame her for doing interviews? For getting publicity for what she may think is saving her sons life? For doing what she is thinking best?

I'm not saying that I'd do what Connie has done. However, if this is what she believes is right and she honestly thinks her son can get better, I can see why.

Charlie's Army also seem to forget that those who want Charlie to be peacefully let go do not want to murder him. If there was a proper chance Charlie could get better, I'd be behind the parents all the way. I wouldn't protest and join CA as I'm not into popular media culture, but if there was a chance that little boy could be saved, of course I'd want him to get the treatment.

Don't forget the parents are real. Charlie is real. Don't say they 'should' be doing this right now, or acting in a certain way.

Their son is dying. The media has turned into a circus, its unstoppable now. There is no correct way to behave in this situation, no guidebook, no etiquette.

They are parents with a dying son and the whole world is watching. My heart goes out to them.

i think in th future it should be total media blackout from both sides

its not fair that one side can spout shit an the other cant defend themselves

Connie Yates has posted under the DM article saying that they were banned from taking him to a different hospital with more experience in his disease. I thought GOSH were experts? Or is she referring to a USA hospital? She also makes comments about 'if you knew what we know' and 'the truth will come out'. Where are her parents? Why aren't they taking her phone away, helping her?

Inside the hospital?

How hard is it to get in usually? Is the whole building 'secure' or just the wards?

@Kanga59 I agree. I wonder what the woman who donated her whole life savings of £40k, before it came out in the previous hearing that Charlie is much more ill than the army were letting on, thinks.

I can see CY suing GOSH after Charlie dies, for negligence etc etc.

I have already seen this suggested and advised on the CA page followed by members all saying they would like to donate money to C&C to pay for it.

I could be wrong, but I think CY's FB post on the GOSH FB post has been deleted. Just as well really, the replies she was getting there were brutal.

Well said Flower

I would imagine that the money will be needed to pay the lawyers fees, which will be a considerable amount, the living expenses of the parents surely have come out of that money already, neither of them will have been working in those past months.

nannyoggs, what did the father of the child in PICU say they'd complained about? I've had a baby in NICU and it was such a calm, supportive place. It must be awful for parents if it is being disrupted.

No its still there WeeWitch.

I can see CY suing GOSH after Charlie dies, for negligence etc etc.

The current legal team is acting pro bono. I very much doubt they'd want to touch a lawsuit. I suspect also the word will have gone round in legal circles and other law firms will not be falling over each other in the rush to take them on as clients. Unlikely a no win, no fee outfit would take it on either. It would be a huge amount of work with no guarantee of a win at the end of it.

Yy Maryz. Aren't we supposed to be addressing "fake news"?!

De-lurking after following all 13 threads! I have nothing new to say, I have been active on Twitter trying to reason with people - that was futile! I have found that some of the outlandish claims of Charlie not being ill etc are mainly from Americans on Twitter, well the ones I have the misfortune of engaging with anyway. I do check CA page and the back peddling from some is laughable. I have screenshots of the threats to Gosh and also of the protest they were planning to Gosh tomorrow! That seems to be deleted now though.
I cannot comprehend what the family are going through and I do feel for them. I worry that they may have thought they were doing the right thing due to the CA support then the tweets from Trump etc. I imagine that they are finding it hard now the tide is turning and may well be lashing out

Does anyone know who the little girl on the bike is?

I would appreciate if anyone could tell me.

Just checking in on new thread.

I agree with others that a gag order should be imposed. BUT I think that order would apply only to participants (GOSH, the Gard/Yates families, and the press. I don't think it would stop randomers on FB. People are still allowed to 'talk' to each other even if the court gags the people involved.

Well, this case definitely gives the lie to the argument that parents should be in total charge of making decisions about their children's care because they're the people most likely to act in their children's best interests. I don't want to sound critical of the parents here - they must have been through hell - but they're clearly not in any state to act rationally and that poor boy is suffering the most as a result. It will also be very sad if, after his death, his main legacy is that he's associated with a social media lynch mob and security threats to a world-class children's hospital - he deserves to be remembered for better reasons. "Moms are the best experts" (a sentiment which I've read several times over the last couple of weeks) is a nice idea but, as a mother, I can safely say that it's horseshit.

CoolCarrie what lawyers fees?